Help Protect Klal Yisrael!

Platinum Member Joined: May 13 2007 Posts: 8153

It is written that when we judge others favorably Hashem judges us favorably too. Right now we need Hashem to protect us and not chas v'shalom judge us on our misdeeds. So please help Eretz Yisrael and all of klal Yisrael (remember antisemitism is everywhere) by being dan l'kaf zchus.

To do so, try putting yourself in another person's shoes. For practice, try these examples:

1. Imagine that you are looking at Imamother from your apartment in Ashdod. Suddenly you here "tzva Edom" and run to you fortified bunker while still holding your laptop. You here the missile crash on the street right outside your house, you thank Hashem that everyone is okay, then you open your computer to find someone on Imamother complaining that they feel sorry for the Arabs and you respond with something unkind.

2. Imagine that you grew up in a liberal home and currently work in an office in Manhattan with people of all races. One of your coworkers who you are quite close with is a Muslim. You then log on to Imamother to find people writing about how they could care less about the Muslims in Gaza and you think of how hurt your friend would be to read that and you respond with something unkind.

The question here isn't who is right. We can and should argue with a poster who we think is incorrect in a polite and respectful way. And most importantly, do not judge her.

Posted: Thu, Jan 08 2009, 3:09 pm Post subject: re: Help Protect Klal Yisrael!

Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7230

I thought this was nice. Thank you.

Gold Member Joined: May 14 2008 Posts: 1668

Much needed post. Thanks Atali!

Platinum Member Joined: Jul 27 2007 Posts: 14736

Well said, Atali.

Diamond Member Joined: May 20 2007 Posts: 2838

Thank you!

Posted: Fri, Jan 09 2009, 9:58 am Post subject: re: Help Protect Klal Yisrael!

Atali get real.
What you are writing is totally Xtian, not Jewish at all.
One doesn't turn the other cheek, not to a Jew and not to a non=Jew.

Hochaiach tochiach et amitecha. One is commanded to rebuke one's fellow Jew when one sees him or her doing something wrong.

In the eyes of much of chazal having pity on the enemy is doing something wrong.
Next time someone in chul gets zapped by a missle destroying their home or hitting near their home, we can have this disussion...until then? It's academic.

A gut and peaceful shabbos to all.
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"Olam Chessed Yiboneh", Tehilim 89.

Platinum Member Joined: Jul 27 2007 Posts: 14736

Oh well, Atali. It was worth a shot. Back to the fighting.

Platinum Member Joined: May 13 2007 Posts: 8153

Posted: Sat, Jan 10 2009, 11:53 am Post subject: re: Help Protect Klal Yisrael!

Atali, I don't scream at anyone, but sometimes I just want to see a bit of sechel and empathy first and foremost for Yidden.

Once again I repeat, when a poster has just finished a long argument telling me that non jews were created only to be our slaves and that's what's going to be in yemos hamoshiach and that the yiddishe neshomeh is a zillion times holier than those of any other people...and then talks about having pity about innocent people - non jews who are aligned with those trying to desstroy me - yes ME! - on the other side of the fence, and then I am told to try and have understanding for those here who uphold that position...well, gotta tell you, something here doesn't make sense.

Posted: Sat, Jan 10 2009, 12:33 pm Post subject:

Amen Freidasima

No one is here is dancing for the death of innocents no matter their religion, but their deaths aren't caused by Israel, but by Hamas and the actions of the parents of these children.

Israel isn't to blame. SO go shout at Hamas.
_________________
But then again, I'm a dragon.
"The best way to keep a prisoner from escaping is to make sure he never knows he�s in prison."
� Fyodor Dostoevsky (via cosmic-rebirth)

Platinum Member Joined: May 13 2007 Posts: 8153

Gold Member Joined: May 14 2008 Posts: 1668

edited because I misunderstood...

Platinum Member Joined: May 13 2007 Posts: 8153

Gold Member Joined: May 14 2008 Posts: 1668

no I'm rereading now, and I see I misunderstood...

HOWEVER, that said, maybe some ppl here should learn Tomer Dvorah - I highly recommend it. It breaks down the sefirot of HKBH and says how we are to emulate Him, for we were created btzelem elokim.

It is written that we should always judge a Jew favorably, even the most wicked of ppl because EVEN HE has the zechut of the avot and the zechut that Hashem sustains his life... it's a very deep sefer but it is worth reading and working through it. you can find it online.

http://www.workfromhomefamilies.com/tomerdevorah.htm

Platinum Member Joined: May 13 2007 Posts: 8153

Gold Member Joined: May 14 2008 Posts: 1668

no you are saying we should be dan lkaf zchut to other posters, and I think friedasima is saying why should we be when what they are saying is not ok...

Posted: Sun, Jan 11 2009, 5:14 am Post subject: re: Help Protect Klal Yisrael!

Exactly.
And what does "dan lekaf zechus" exactly mean?
In my book, it means that if out of ignorance of misinterpretation of the facts or bad education or whatever some Yid or Yiddeneh expresses an incorrect opinion or does something wrong, we should not automatically blame them but first explain the facts to correct that ignorance and misinterpretation or to give them an education so that they know the truth.

BUT...if after you have done that, that same Yid or Yiddeneh still continues doing what they were doing or saying what they were saying....well then you don't have to ladun lekaf zechus anymore.

Over the past week we have had innumerable posts about the war in EY. And we here in EY have done all we can to correct misconcepttions, to educate where the foreign media has given a biased anti EY opinion etc. But even if after all of that we still have the posts about having pity on the poor innocent Palestinian children...well then we haven't made any headway with our trying to educate, have we? And then, in my book we no longer have to "ladun lekaf zechus.".

Just my two cents.

Posted: Sun, Jan 11 2009, 6:30 am Post subject: re: Help Protect Klal Yisrael!

OK - I think its not a Q maybe of just dan l'kaf zchut but however much we disagree and are even upset at someone else's thoughts, words, or even actions, we have the option of responding in a matter that is not personally attacking but fact- attacking, responding in a way that will bring about a kidush Hashem and not a chilul Hashem. I live in EY and have been shocked by some posts I have written but maybe I am missing something but are poeple saying (still) those poor children? Well, if yes, it does shock me, cause feelings of disgust and even fright, cause if our fellow Jews could think like that, what do we expect from the rest of the world. I believe they are wrong. I also would bring psukim and other things to back up what I am saying but I hope I did not or will not attack anyone. I wrote at the end of a post don't take this as an attack on you but a message to all ...I think we have all stated our opinions more than once, but we need to either learn to talk in a respectful manner or not to discuss these things anymore. Maybe we should all try to add to our posts something that will comfort the other person/ people- such as We are all with you.... or not against you personally but I absolutely totally disagree! how can you say that....
If someone was committing sins and we tried correcting him/ her , and they didn't listen, what would be the better way of 'reaching them'- to treat them with respect while still letting them know you disagree or treating them as lowlier, as 'holier than thou'
If you are going to down right insult just skip it, be the quiet one in the argument and win a zchut, see anger management on the middot forum. However, those who will get insulted and consider their opinion attacked to be personally attacked and degraded should also stay out of these kinds of conversations.
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מצווה גדולה להיות בשמחה תמיד

Posted: Sun, Jan 11 2009, 5:45 pm Post subject: re: Help Protect Klal Yisrael!

Nice post, Atali. I don't exactly agree with the examples you gave, but I definitely support the general idea.

I think there's another step, and that's being dan l'chaf zechut regarding the post itself. IOW, it's important not to jump to bad conclusions about what someone is saying and to react ONLY to what's been written.

For example: someone who says she feels sorry for Palestinian children is not necessarily a. blaming the IDF for Palestinian casualties b. opposing the war or c. more concerned for Palestinian children than for Jewish children.

Someone who says she does not feel sorry is not necessarily a. saying nobody should feel sorry b. saying feeling sorry is not the ideal, ie how a complete tzaddik would feel or c. saying she disagrees with the basic premise that the death of innocents is regrettable, in any situation.