Teacher behaving badly.

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 6:59 pm Post subject: Teacher behaving badly.

Hi- I have no one to turn to and need advice. My daughters teacher spoke to me in a highly inappropriate way, yelling at me and told me that he does not care if she never comes back to school.
My children go to a Torah Umesora Day school . The school had a menorah contest and all my children submitted a menora they worked on. My 8 yr old daughter had hers on her desk after the contest and one boy passsed by her desk and accidently broke off a piece. so he said "oh I broke it" and she said I don't care. So he said but its broken and she said I don't care if it breaks. In a typical female way she said she didn't care to emotionally protect herself, while inside she cared very much.
That boy, plus 4 others procedded to break her menorah tearing the pieces off till there was nothing left.
My daughter , did not trust the teacher enough to tell him (this happened the last 10 min. of class) she came home, burst into tears and told me. After telling me the story, I called a parent of one of the boys, who confirmed everything my daughter said. So I called the teacher and asked what can we do? I told him how this was deliberate and how can they do this. He promised to speak to the principal and called me back the next afternoon.
The teacher Rabbi xyz., said, "after speaking to the parents of the other boys, I hear that she gave them permission to break it, so I don't think they did anything wrong." I told him it was highly unlikely that she gave them PERMISSION. He said "she said she doesn't care if its broken, so that means she gave them permission". So I asked him if he is justifing waht the boys did, and he said actually I am. I said did they do anything wrong? He said no- they had her permissin. Will they be disciplined? He said, no They had every right to do that.
So I was in shock and said I can not believe you that these boys, who destroyed property will not be disiplined. He said well "we know you have a history of getting hyterical and we decided that we will not take any of your concerns seriously." He continued to say, We know that you called me about another issue and that there is something wrong with your daughter that she reacts in these strange ways. You must be doing something wrong that you raised a kid like this Normal children would not care about a menora that is already broken. Please don't ever call me about any complaints.
I said- are you telling me that if there is a problem with my daughter while in your class then I cannot call you to discuss it? He said no. I said so how can she remain in your class? He said "well I don't care if she doesn't come back."
I said can you say that again so my husband can hear? and he repeated "I don't care if your daughter never comes back to my class- no loss to me"
So I in total shock handed the phone to my husband who said, I can't believe what you just said, and the teacher hung up on him.

What am I supposed to do? This teacher, I assuming was responding to me after discussing it witht he principal, and this is what they came up with to tell me.
So obviously I cannot go to the principal. What should I do?

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:05 pm Post subject: re: teacher behaving badly.

I am... at loss of words... wow... just wow... some teachers are just MORONS AND J*RKS.

You need to go to the principal (don't assume anything, he's a loony), if not possible, to the institution in charge of teachers. You can ask other parents if they have complaints too. Don't hesitate to go very "high" in the hierarchy.
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"You will have many many children and make successful shidduchim beh", rebbetzin Esther Jungreis
"It's all cultural, disagree respectfully", me

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 10 2006 Posts: 6566

I would run this by the principal. Just because the teacher spoke with the principal doesn't mean the principal gave his haskama for those things to be said.

cover your bases, and know the facts: ie. where the principal stands in this.

This is quite unbelieveable IMHO. (not that I don't believe you. I mean that it is just very dreadful.)
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:10 pm Post subject: re: teacher behaving badly.

I don't know what your other complaint was, but I do think you should bring it up with the principal. if the principal agrees, it's time to switch schools if you can. you also have to talk to your daughter about her reactions. while I disagree with the teacher, telling some boys that you don't care that they broke your menorah is pretty much an invitation to continue breaking. that's how boys are. I don't quite understand this emotional guardedness unless she's had such bad experiences with these classmates previously. if the boy says "oh, I broke it," she can say "please fix it" or "that's ok, I'll fix it when I get home." the teacher shouldn't necessarily punish the boys, but he should certainly let them know that what they did was wrong.

are there any female teachers in this school?

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:14 pm Post subject: re: teacher behaving badly.

Huh what sort of a teacher is he?! Are you sure it was he you were speaking to and not a substitute

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:20 pm Post subject: re: teacher behaving badly.

yes there are female teachers. yeas it was him, not a clone on meds, and the teacher pretty much confirmed to me that the principal told him they would not discipline the boys.
At this point I don't care about the boys, I know the parents spoke to their kids, and they are only 8 so that is fine.
My bigger question is do I send her back to school? should I tell the torah umesora main office?

And the other subject that I complained about was a subject the teacher introduced that is appropriate for 16 yr olds. I wanted to know in what context it was taught in and if its in the curriculum. Teacher admitted that it was too much for them and said he would use more sensitivity in the future. it was a pleasant coversation.

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:23 pm Post subject: re: teacher behaving badly.

in that case, go over the principal's head. absolutely. see what they say. and consider switching schools. they obviously don't respect your daughter's needs or you as a parent. you may want to consider switching all your kids.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 10 2006 Posts: 6566

I really think you need to go over this with the principal in person, not assuming anythng bc of the teacher.

Even if the principal agrees re: punishing the boys, there is something majorly wrong with this teacher for speaking like that. Maybe he shouldn't be a teacher.

hypothetically, let's just say his view of things is right, it still takes a major lack of middos and teaching ability to speak to a parent like that. Kal v'chomer if he's not writing about some things.

Don't take action until you speak to the principal. Stay calm, and try to find a solution first with teh school and then possibly without.

Hatzlochah!

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: teacher behaving badly.

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:32 pm Post subject: re: teacher behaving badly.

before you go over the principal's head you should speak to the principal. If the principal can't clear it up, go to the higher ups. This teacher has got some nerve. If nothing changes, I would pull my kid out of that class asap because it sounds like this teacher has something against you and your child.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 10 2006 Posts: 6566

Even if she gave permission, it's still baal tashchis, no?

And having been picked on in school, I can imagine a boy taunting her "but I broke it? aren't you MAAAD?" and she tries to downplay the feelings so that they don't "win".

I think there's something in between stoning the boys and letting them off of the hook. Destroying things for no reason is an aveira.

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:45 pm Post subject: re: teacher behaving badly.

The teacher could have been pro-active. What's done is done. he could've said "we dont destroy things. How about we help your daughter rebuild her menorah?"

I don't think punishments should have necessarily been meted out. But the boys could have helped her rebuild her menorah or something.

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 7:51 pm Post subject:

Executive Member Joined: Jan 14 2008 Posts: 451

I don't think the real issue here is the boys, and whether they will be disciplined. For me, the problem is the way the teacher spoke to you. No professional teacher (and I don't mean qualified, I mean decent teacher) should ever speak to a parent like that. Even if you pushed him over the edge, he should have ended the conversation politely and had the principal talk to you. And it doesn't sound like you did that.

You need to talk to the principal. I think you should not focus on the boys, but on what the teacher said. How can your child be in a classroom where the teacher couldn't care if she was there or not? I think that's the bottom line, that a teacher could say something like that requires serious attention.

This is coming from a teacher, who has had her share of students she didn't always like, and of REALLY annoying and difficult parents. (Note, I am not putting you in that category.)

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 8:19 pm Post subject: re: Teacher behaving badly.

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 8:23 pm Post subject: re: Teacher behaving badly.

great post, stepmum!

Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2008, 10:46 pm Post subject: re: Teacher behaving badly.

anonymous because I figured out who the op is.

1-there is no option of changing schools-unless you want op to send her daughter to public school.

2-this was the 3rd grade teacher?!?!?!

3-talk to the principal anyway-just for the way the teacher spoke to you.

4-I'm real sorry about the menora-all your kids did amazing jobs on theirs (which one was hers? at first I thought you meant your oldests, and I nearly cried.)

Posted: Mon, Dec 29 2008, 12:10 am Post subject: re: Teacher behaving badly.

correct anonymos poster who figured me out I know you too Wink

crazy isn't it?

Gold Member Joined: Jul 26 2008 Posts: 2098

Wow. That is just unacceptable. You know how he spoke to you, and you know something needs to be done about it.

Step 1) Speak to the principal. In person.

Step 2) have a meeting with the principal AND this so called teacher. If your school has a separate Limudei Kodesh and Secular studies directors, invite them both) . It will be VERY difficult for him to speak to you that way with his boss in the room, and maybe he'll just stick to the facts. And if he does speak to you that way in front of his boss, then his boss will either a) be on your side, or b) see his side, in which case it's time for:

Step 3) Take it to a higer power. In my experience, that means the school board. Odds are, if he's talked to you like that, then he's probably talked to someone else like that (unless he has some wierd beef with you) and they've heard this before. Either way, it's a big problem for them.

Don't let them push you around. And don't let them push you out of the school either. I mean, if you send your kids there it's because you like it. Have her switch teachers maybe?

Posted: Mon, Dec 29 2008, 12:28 am Post subject: Re: re: Teacher behaving badly.