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| ChossidMom |
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 Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 9:36 am Post subject: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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Mimisinger - I just have to share (again) that every time I see your title in the list of New Posts I just crack up. Sorry. Something about the picture of a one armed raincoat. Sounds very religious (NOT).
Maybe it's because I've never seen a chosson in a coat here in Israel and my husband is too much of a "gever" to wear one  He just wore his kapoteh (bekesha for the Americans)
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| brooklyn |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| bbmom wrote: | | IIt's not a cut and dry reason - ! |
Talking about a one armed raincoat.... that's actually kind of funny.
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| Mrs. XYZ |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| Mimisinger wrote: | | Mrs. XYZ wrote: | | Maya wrote: | | Mrs. XYZ wrote: | | I thought it was only a chassidishe minhag. By us we do it, dont know why. I'll ask my dh later. |
Really? I've never heard of it or seen it. |
Yes, its done with the 'reszevulke', they keep one arm out of the sleeve. My husband doesn't have a reszevulke so he borrowed one from a friend. You probably never paid attention, its not so noticeable. |
What is that? |
A chassidishe shabbosdig overcoat, made of black satin, that is worn over the bekesha. Some wear it only when its cold, some wear it every shabbos all year round, and some dont wear it at all.
Now for sources about this minhag, my husband found this in ספר × ×˜×¢×™ גברי×ל:
| Quote: | | יש × ×•×”×’×™× ×©×ž×œ×‘×™×©×™×Ÿ החתן מלבוש עליון על הקיטל ו××™× ×• ×ž×›× ×™×¡ ידו השמ×לית לתוך השרוול כדי לעשות ×©×™× ×•×™ במלבוש החתן זכר לחורבן |
So the reason like you said, was zecher l'churban.
It also says another reason something about everything in life should go "with the right hand".
Then it also says:
| Quote: | | ×œ× ×™××” להחתן לעמוד תחת החופה בלי מלבוש עליון על הקיטל ×œ× ×‘×™×ž×•×ª הקיץ ×›×©×—× ×œ×• |
That in general a chosson should wear something over the kittel.
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| Mimisinger |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks XYZ!!!!
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| BlumaG |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 2:12 pm Post subject: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| I thought lubavitch wear a wool coat over hte kittel
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| greenfire |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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lubavitch wear the rebbe's shirt over their kappotah ...
litvish wear a kittel (white for yom kippur) over their suits
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 6:02 pm Post subject: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| My husband wore his kapoteh over his kittel. Both arms. I guess the one armed thing isn't a Polish minhag.
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| bbmom |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfire wrote: | lubavitch wear the rebbe's shirt over their kappotah ...
litvish wear a kittel (white for yom kippur) over their suits |
The minhag is to wear a kittel. The minhag of the Rebbe's shirt came from the fact that the Rebbe used to give his shirt to some chasanim to wear. (To wear a germent belonging to a tzadik under the chuppah). This evolved into people wearing the Rebbe's shirt instead of the kittel because the reason for the kittel is white - if the shirt is white and it's over the kapote then it serves as a kittel - however the minhag, as has been stated clearly in letters of the Rebbe, is to wear a kittel.
DH asked a rav about this and the rav said that the shirt does not replace the kittel, that those who wear the shirt should wear a kittel on top, and that those who do not are mistaken.
Just to note: As far as I know there are only two (publicized) sources that have a shirt belonging to the Rebbe that loan them to chasanim. One of these sources has taken the shirt and sewn it between to kittels to protect it. Meaning, 50% of the time you will see a lubavitch chosson he will be wearing a kittel and not a visible shirt.
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| sky |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| manhattanmom wrote: |
Both good ones!
We don't have a minhag to wear a coat at all. My dh put on his kittel under the chuppah and did not wear a coat on top of it.
My father didn't even wear a kittel at all (a yekkie minhag.) |
dh didn't wear a kittel or raincoat. Just his chassunah suit. But we were draped with a tallis during our 'backward' chuppah.
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| Mimisinger |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| Mrs. XYZ wrote: | | Mimisinger wrote: | | Mrs. XYZ wrote: | | Maya wrote: | | Mrs. XYZ wrote: | | I thought it was only a chassidishe minhag. By us we do it, dont know why. I'll ask my dh later. |
Really? I've never heard of it or seen it. |
Yes, its done with the 'reszevulke', they keep one arm out of the sleeve. My husband doesn't have a reszevulke so he borrowed one from a friend. You probably never paid attention, its not so noticeable. |
What is that? |
A chassidishe shabbosdig overcoat, made of black satin, that is worn over the bekesha. Some wear it only when its cold, some wear it every shabbos all year round, and some dont wear it at all.
Now for sources about this minhag, my husband found this in ספר × ×˜×¢×™ גברי×ל:
| Quote: | | יש × ×•×”×’×™× ×©×ž×œ×‘×™×©×™×Ÿ החתן מלבוש עליון על הקיטל ו××™× ×• ×ž×›× ×™×¡ ידו השמ×לית לתוך השרוול כדי לעשות ×©×™× ×•×™ במלבוש החתן זכר לחורבן |
So the reason like you said, was zecher l'churban.
It also says another reason something about everything in life should go "with the right hand".
Then it also says:
| Quote: | | ×œ× ×™××” להחתן לעמוד תחת החופה בלי מלבוש עליון על הקיטל ×œ× ×‘×™×ž×•×ª הקיץ ×›×©×—× ×œ×• |
That in general a chosson should wear something over the kittel. |
Thanks again Mrs XYZ. Dh asked if you could please requote the last sentence as lamed mem isn't a word?
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| Mimisinger |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| sky wrote: | | manhattanmom wrote: |
Both good ones!
We don't have a minhag to wear a coat at all. My dh put on his kittel under the chuppah and did not wear a coat on top of it.
My father didn't even wear a kittel at all (a yekkie minhag.) |
dh didn't wear a kittel or raincoat. Just his chassunah suit. But we were draped with a tallis during our 'backward' chuppah. |
What was backward about it?
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| Mrs. XYZ |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 9:11 pm Post subject: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| Quote: | | Thanks again Mrs XYZ. Dh asked if you could please requote the last sentence as lamed mem isn't a word? |
oops, it should be ×’× "also in the summer"
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| bandcm |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bbmom wrote: | | greenfire wrote: | lubavitch wear the rebbe's shirt over their kappotah ...
litvish wear a kittel (white for yom kippur) over their suits |
The minhag is to wear a kittel. The minhag of the Rebbe's shirt came from the fact that the Rebbe used to give his shirt to some chasanim to wear. (To wear a germent belonging to a tzadik under the chuppah). This evolved into people wearing the Rebbe's shirt instead of the kittel because the reason for the kittel is white - if the shirt is white and it's over the kapote then it serves as a kittel - however the minhag, as has been stated clearly in letters of the Rebbe, is to wear a kittel.
DH asked a rav about this and the rav said that the shirt does not replace the kittel, that those who wear the shirt should wear a kittel on top, and that those who do not are mistaken.
Just to note: As far as I know there are only two (publicized) sources that have a shirt belonging to the Rebbe that loan them to chasanim. One of these sources has taken the shirt and sewn it between to kittels to protect it. Meaning, 50% of the time you will see a lubavitch chosson he will be wearing a kittel and not a visible shirt. |
Why do you think there are only two?
I personally know three people who have a shirt of the Rebbe's. One in Israel, one in New York, and one in Manchester, UK. I am sure there are more.
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| sky |
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| Posted: Mon, Dec 01 2008, 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: re: Where did the one armed raincoat minhag come from? |
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| Mimisinger wrote: | | sky wrote: | | manhattanmom wrote: |
Both good ones!
We don't have a minhag to wear a coat at all. My dh put on his kittel under the chuppah and did not wear a coat on top of it.
My father didn't even wear a kittel at all (a yekkie minhag.) |
dh didn't wear a kittel or raincoat. Just his chassunah suit. But we were draped with a tallis during our 'backward' chuppah. |
What was backward about it? |
We stood facing away from everyone. so our back, covered in a tallis was facing the crowd. It was the first time I had seen that done. (although I didn't really see it)
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