I told my daughter to lie

Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 11:47 am Post subject: I told my daughter to lie

I wrote the post about my mil giving gifts that I don't want the kids to have, thanks, but no thanks. (w/o the vowels)

Last night she came over with other shoes. She still didn't give the other ones or the ones she brought over last night. I have no idea why and I wasn't going to say anything. After she left my dd, who's 10 told me the conversation she had w/ my mil. My mil asked her if she likes the sneakers she got and my dd told her, no. My mil then said, "oy, you don't like it, what am I going to do, I give you a present and you don't like it". This is not the first time she gave such a response.

One time before a vacation, she asked my dd what we're going to do over vacation and my dd said that she doesn't know. Which she didn't because we didn't make any plans yet. My mil said to her, "oh, you're probably not telling me because your Aba and Mommy said that you shouldn't".

Like I said in the other thread, she gave shoes to my baby and asked if they'll fit him when he starts to walk. We told her that we don't know because we don't know when he's going to start walking and we don't know what size his foot will be. He's under a year. She got so insulted.

Okay, now you know what kind of person we're dealing with. Let me get to my point already. I told my dd, "the next time Savta asks you if you like something that she gives you, just tell her yes, whether it's true or not. When I ask you, I really want to know if you do, but she just wants to hear, yes. That's what makes her happy, so just make her happy and say, yes".

Do you think I was wrong?

Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 11:51 am Post subject: re: I told my daughter to lie

no, I think that's a lesson in proper etiquette. I was also taught to thank people for gifts. trust me, I get plenty I don't want.

rather than wait till she's asked, tell her to give a huge thank you right away upon receiving gifts, that way no one will ask if she likes them.

Platinum Member Joined: Jun 09 2005 Posts: 11840

I think you should have clarified the difference. Not that she doesn't want to hear it, but that when someone gives you a gift, it's polite to thank them and assure them that you like it, since they put in effort to choose the gift and want the nachas of knowing it was appreciated.
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Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 11:52 am Post subject: re: I told my daughter to lie

No, you didn't do the wrong thing. You can explain that she loves to gives gifts, & feels very bad if you don't like it. So we want to make grandma feel good & happy. Such a mitzvah to make her happy. I know cause I am in the same sitch. If you don't like her taste she sulks & you are bad. Could my mother be your mil? Wink

Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 1:20 pm Post subject: re: I told my daughter to lie

I think you're giving her a lesson in being "meshane" for the sake of shalom and not hurting feelings, and you should explain it to her as such - that this is what we do in such a specific situation. I think you can also discuss together how best to say it so it's the smallest untruth.
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Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 2:23 pm Post subject:

I agree with crayon about appreciating a gift whether you like it or not to say "thank you" - and telling your daughter to lie cannot be a good thing ...

but neither is an interrogating grandmother ...

why don't you tell mil that she can take dd shopping next time and maybe they'll both be happy ... What

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Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 3:13 pm Post subject:

I once attended a shiur about these kinds of topics and I clearly remember a lot of it. There is a concept of lying for Shalom but you also don't really have to lie. The example given int he class was one where your Great-grandmother bakes you a cake and accidentally puts in salt instead of sugar. When the grandmother asks how the cake was you can 1. tell the truth 2. lie or 3. say how you really feel. An example of #3 would be to tell your great-grandmother that the cake made you feel so special since no one else got a homemade cake for their birthday. You should certainly tell your DD to always say thank you when receiving a gift, but you also can teach her to not hurt the giver's feelings without lying.

Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 4:26 pm Post subject: re: I told my daughter to lie

Thank you for all your responses.
Crayon, I did tell her about she shouldn't normally lie, but this is different.
Greenfire, she does sometimes takes her shopping, but didn't this time.
HooRYou, what should she say in this case, even though it already passed?

Platinum Member Joined: Jun 09 2005 Posts: 11840

I just meant that it sounded like you framed your mother-in-law in a negative way, which isn't really appropriate for your daughter.

Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 4:40 pm Post subject: re: I told my daughter to lie

I am a mother in law, I wouldn't want to be lied to but I wouldn't try bying shoes like that. I f when I buy cloth I would rather know the truth so as not to waste money and effort on wrong stuff. I am not sure how I would respond to my mother in law if she did that. Yes to say thankyou but I would not want to lie or tell my children to.

Platinum Member Joined: Jun 09 2005 Posts: 11840

Yeah, kids pick up on that and need to be reassured that it's okay, not all adults are normal. But that they need to be respectful anyway. Wink

Posted: Tue, Sep 09 2008, 6:12 pm Post subject:

You are teaching her the beauty of relationships. It’s is Muttar to lie for Shalom!
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Diamond Member Joined: Jan 19 2006 Posts: 4450

My grandmother AH loved a bargain, I was always a very picky kid, and constantly insultd my grandmother by saying I didn't like the dress she got me. Every visit turned into a screaming match, till my mother said,

"Just say thank you bobby I love it!, we'll take it home and you'll never have to wear it!"

It made life much better! I would have told my kids the same thing!

Posted: Wed, Sep 10 2008, 2:20 am Post subject: re: I told my daughter to lie

Your DD should say the positive things about how she feels. IT won't sound too sincere if it is just a script but she could say something like: It's so nice that you thought of me, thank you! The point is to show a real emotion appreciating the effort and thought and not focusing on the gift itself which comparably is not as important.

Posted: Wed, Sep 10 2008, 3:48 am Post subject:

Diamond Member Joined: Aug 26 2007 Posts: 4037

yes, I agree with others...it is permissible to lie to be a rodef shalom. and in this case, it sounds like you need it!

Platinum Member Joined: Jul 27 2007 Posts: 15013

I think it's great to teach kids to be polite and appreciative no matter what, but it sounds like you're imposing your own feelings about your mother-in-law on your child, with the way that you explained it. Little children deserve to love and respect their grandparents, and we shouldn't teach them, even subtly, our own feelings about our in-laws, unless the in-laws are behaving in a blatantly rude manner and we feel the children sense it and need to understand.