Books like fairy tales and certain movies for children

Posted: Thu, May 08 2008, 3:31 pm Post subject:

I also read that he wasn't Jewish, but don't remember exactly where or if it was stated as an opinion only.

there are midrashim that say he was Pharoah's advisor along with Yisro and Bilaam I think.
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about iyov
I also was under the same impression as motek that he wasn't nec. non-jewish and that there is a view its a mashal.

Either way I don't think this discussion is relevant to the topic. The topic is specifically about fairies and fairy tales like cinderela.
Those were the issues being addressed until people started making suggestions that we were saying you can't talk about anything to your kids including righteous non-Jews.
I don't see a problem with telling them about righteous non-Jews and never suggested that.
did anybody?

Never said that the only subject you can ever discuss was G-d.
I see no problem with reading a book to your kids about how trees and flowers go, and no harm there either with throwing in the subject of Hashem's hand in it Wink

whether or not there are other opinions on iyov's religious status, there are opinions that say:

a) he was a tzaddik, and
b) he was not jewish. she asked for a torah source, and there you have it. on with our scheduled program...

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When we say that Hashem is chanun v'rachum (gracious and compassionate) and we have a mitzva to emulate Him, when we invoke Hashem's 12 Middos of Rachamim, we are not merely using a figure of speech.

Is Hashem pleased when I do a mitzva?

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There's definitely a concept of "pleasure" (Reyach Nichoach) and "wants" (Nisaaveh Lo Hakadosh Baruch Hu...) on Hashem's part. What that actually means, I haven't the faintest.
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I don't believe that malachim have any similarity to people. If I would read your post to my children they would conjure of picture of invisible people who are in the sky with Hashem. Malachim are a force, an energy source, created by G-d to interact with the world. If G-d occasionally decides to send a force to the world in human form so be it, but that doesn't mean that any malach can appear human at any time. Using words like "bechira" and "creations like us" sends you on the wrong track.

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But a Malach IS a creation.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 22 2004 Posts: 9754

So is grass, chairs, animals, toys, etc. Malachim are in a completely different category, so why put them in that context? It doesn't solve anything and doesn't allow proper conceptualization.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241

When we learn about G-dly light, neshamos, malachim, and spiritual worlds, we learn which things are considered creations and which things are part of G-d's essence itself. That's why we put Malachim in the category of creations.

Other than that, Malachim are usually spoken about the way they sing praises to Hashem, how they are completely batul to Hashem's will, and the missions they are given.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 22 2004 Posts: 9754

Thank you for clarifying. As we all know, I do not ascribe to a Lubavitch/Kabbalistic ideology, so we have very different views on things. Which is why I don't understand why I am asked to defend my beliefs. We have different premises, we don't accept each other's premises, so what's the point in arguing the details?

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I really have no idea what you are talking about. This discussion was never about malachim, it was about me teaching things about religion to my kids that I don't believe in, and whether or not this is better, worse, or the same as fairytales. My actual belief about malachim has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.

Platinum Member Joined: Apr 15 2007 Posts: 5828

I used malochim as just one example of things we could be talking about rather then fairies and why we don't need them, and you commented indicating that there are those who don't believe in them.

You also went on to say in a further post that you don't tell your kids things that are not true, indicating that what I said is not true. (re: malochim)

Of course if you had wanted to stick to the topic and not gone on about the authenticity or not of malochim you could have just as easily chosen to focus on my point rather then my examples which you were clearly taking issue with.

enough said.