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| Crayon210 |
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 Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Maya wrote: | | Crayon210 wrote: |
So they can use a milk gadget in preparing your black coffee, and then (for those who keep CY)...guess what, your coffee is now milchig with non-CY.
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I don't think that can happen. |
It DOES happen. It happened to a relative of mine.
| Quote: | | I believe them to be very careful regarding dairy and non-dairy because of allergies. If someone is allergic to milk, and asks for a black coffee, the baristas have to be careful not to use any milk utensils. If you look behind the counter, you will see that everything is marked as dairy or non-dairy. |
It might be marked, but they don't always follow it.
Last edited by Crayon210 on Tue, Nov 25 2008, 6:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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| Crayon210 |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 12:46 am Post subject: Re: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| mumoo wrote: | | each management has their own system, regardless of the corporate policy. |
And I'm sure each worker has his/her own system when they're lazy/make a mistake/no one's looking/etc.
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Crayon210 wrote: | | Maya wrote: | | Crayon210 wrote: |
So they can use a milk gadget in preparing your black coffee, and then (for those who keep CY)...guess what, your coffee is now milchig with non-CY.
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I don't think that can happen. |
It DOES happen. It happened to a relative of mine.
| Quote: | | I believe them to be very careful regarding dairy and non-dairy because of allergies. If someone is allergic to milk, and asks for a black coffee, the baristas have to be careful not to use any milk utensils. If you look behind the counter, you will see that everything is marked as dairy or non-dairy. |
It might be marked, but they don't always follow it. |
What milk utensil would they use in decanting a cup of coffee from their machine into a paper cup? Indeed, what utensil would they use at all? All I've seen them do is flip the lever, let the coffee stream in until full, then flip the lever off. Now, the lattes and cappucinos may be a different story. The espresso itself is OK for the same reason as the coffee, but I suppose that there is some risk of cross-contamination of the milk products with the soy, and they do use a spoon to remove extra foam.
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| mumoo |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 2:48 am Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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this is what R' Fishbane said after talking to several different franchises:
re: cleaning the metal mesh coffee baskets- one guy said, "these get hand washed because each one costs hundreds of dollars. we wouldn't even think of putting them in the dishwasher. they would be destroyed. and also its corporate policy to hand wash the baskets."
another worker said, " yeah, we put them in he dishwasher" [with all the other treif utensils at 400 degrees] so much for corporate policy. it might be corporate policy to keep the dairy and non-dairy separate too...
and the hand washer guy dries with the shmattes they use to wipe the tables with whatever food/drink was on them.
really, the shiur was very enlightening
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| mimivan |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 5:29 am Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| Okay...well I don't live in the U.S, so I don't go there much anymore, needless to say (kinda glad after what you ladies said here..)
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| loveit |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 6:52 am Post subject: |
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guess everyone will have to move to California for Coffee Bean where everything is kosher.... 
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| Tamiri |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 7:02 am Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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There is Coffee Bean in Israel, where everything is kosher from soup to nuts etc. AND was also KFP (at least I saw a sign for that in the Raanana branch). 
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| amother |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 7:36 am Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| Quote: | | another worker said, " yeah, we put them in he dishwasher" [with all the other treif utensils at 400 degrees] so much for corporate policy. it might be corporate policy to keep the dairy and non-dairy separate too... |
I am posting as amother because maybe this is a stupid question. But I was told that because the temperature is so high when they clean it, all the utensils are kashered automatically, like boiling them.
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| Chocoholic |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 9:39 am Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| Some people always try to make life hard for themselves.. that´s fine.. but you don´t have to hold by what they hold....
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| cassandra |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 9:47 am Post subject: Re: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| amother wrote: | | Quote: | | another worker said, " yeah, we put them in he dishwasher" [with all the other treif utensils at 400 degrees] so much for corporate policy. it might be corporate policy to keep the dairy and non-dairy separate too... |
I am posting as amother because maybe this is a stupid question. But I was told that because the temperature is so high when they clean it, all the utensils are kashered automatically, like boiling them. |
It's not stupid. There are also opinions that hold that dishwashers aren't really a problem as the soap makes everything nosen taam lifgam; also they usually rinse everything before it goes in the dishwasher so there is very little mamashus anyway, there are many reasons to say it is no problem.
I don't think people necessarily want to make their lives more difficult, only that there are those who aim for perfection even when halacha doesn't necessarily require it. There are philosophical and (to some) spiritual reasons to practice like this and I don't think they should be denigrated for their beliefs. But they too have the responsibility to understand the basis for what they are doing and why others have valid reasons to practice as they do. This way we can all be one big happy family.
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| gryp |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 9:52 am Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| Quote: | | I don't think people necessarily want to make their lives more difficult, only that there are those who aim for perfection even when halacha doesn't necessarily require it. There are philosophical and (to some) spiritual reasons to practice like this and I don't think they should be denigrated for their beliefs. But they too have the responsibility to understand the basis for what they are doing and why others have valid reasons to practice as they do. This way we can all be one big happy family |
Cassandra  
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| Crayon210 |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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To the poster who asked about the milk gadget in the coffee:
It was a tea (also with a hechsher), the teabag fell in, and the girl automatically reached for the milk tool to pull it out.
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| chavamom |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Cassandra - I absolutely agree. My problem is when there are those who try to hold it is "absolutely treif" when there are certainly valid opinions that it is not.
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| mumoo |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 12:33 pm Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| but are you willing to valid opinions that say it is?
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Crayon210 wrote: | To the poster who asked about the milk gadget in the coffee:
It was a tea (also with a hechsher), the teabag fell in, and the girl automatically reached for the milk tool to pull it out. |
That wouldn't bother me, or cause me not to buy coffee there. (OTOH, the fact that most of their coffee tastes burnt does keep me out of there.) I didn't grow up keeping kosher, but I've been doing it for more than 12 years now, and there are days that I just reach for the closest utensil when I'm in a rush, then stop myself; that doesn't mean my home isn't kosher, it just means I make an occasional mistake. In this case, the error was obvious to anyone watching, and I wouldn't consider it endemic or problematic except in those rare and obvious cases. YMMV.
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| Crayon210 |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, for people who don't use non-CY milk, it isn't just a mistake. The person threw out the tea upon leaving.
Second, if you grab the utensil and use it inappropriately and don't kasher it, then it's not just a mistake. The utensil needs to be kashered. And that could have ramifications for the whole kitchen...
Third, that 'small' error is probably not the only error. And who knows what the other errors are?
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| ChavieK |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 2:46 pm Post subject: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| Why throw out the tea? Explain that you can't have any dairy products & ask politely for another.Maybe if one is aware of what the people behind the counter do it could make a difference in the product.
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| chavamom |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| mumoo wrote: | | but are you willing to valid opinions that say it is? | Of course. But my rav (and the local va'ad) says otherwise. It doesn't make it "treif" that you heard a shiur that says there are issues involved.
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| Crayon210 |
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| Posted: Sun, May 04 2008, 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: re: Is Starbucks Kosher? |
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| ChavieK wrote: | | Why throw out the tea? Explain that you can't have any dairy products & ask politely for another.Maybe if one is aware of what the people behind the counter do it could make a difference in the product. |
Some people would rather not make a fuss and move on with the day.
One person saying she can't have dairy products is not going to make any kind of reliable change.
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