"I'm a chossid and you're not"--rant

Platinum Member Joined: Mar 07 2007 Posts: 10429

Just as "Christian" is not the opposite of "Jewish" --there are more nonChristian nonJews in the world than there are christians, and nonChristian nonJews do not appreciate being called Christian--, so, lehavdil, "Litvish" is not the opposite of "Chassidish". Litvish Yiddishkeit is a school of jewish thought, custom and practice that originated in Lithuania. it is one of many schools of jewish thought, custom and practice, including those that originated in germany; other parts of eastern europe not affiliated with the Lithuanian centers; spain and portugal; northern Africa; and the middle east to name a few of the broad divisions. each of these has its characteristic way of doing things and none of them is Chassidish OR Litvish. What do you call a Hungarian/Rumanian jew who is not a chossid? I don't know, but he's not litvish!

At one time the "opposite"of "Chossid" was "Misnaged". Hisnagdus originated in Lithuania, specifically with the Vilna Gaon. There are no true misnagdim any more--not because there aren't those who oppose chassidus, but because the opposition has blunted over the centuries to the point that there is no longer any movement called "Misnagdim."

So please, stop making statements about "chasidim do X and litvish do Y" when what you mean is "that portion of the ashkenazi jewish world that isn't chassidish does Y". Got it?

Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2007, 8:47 pm Post subject:

What brought this on now?
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Platinum Member Joined: Apr 15 2007 Posts: 5828

yeah I have the same question as momtomor. I don't know what you are talking about louche Confused

Platinum Member Joined: Mar 07 2007 Posts: 10429

the immediate impetus was a post earlier today about chessed, in which the poster said something about admiring chassidim who do so many chassodim--and, oh, yes, I also know many Litvish people who do lots of chassodim, too. Really? Who would have thought it? Rolling Eyes

I know yekkes, Moroccans, Spanish/portuguese jews, and syrian jews, and they do a lot of chassadim, too. if I knew any Yemenite Jews or Bokharian Jews I'd probably discover that they also do a lot of chassadim.

However, it was not this post alone. look throughout this board and you will see over and over where people use the term "Litvish" to mean anyone who isn't chassidish. As one who believes in using language that is as accurate and precise as one is capable of making it, I am simply offended by this verbal sloppiness or ignorance, whichever it is. This is exactly like calling every English-speaking person "American" or "English", who cares if they are really Australian, South African, Canadian, British West Indian, etc. etc.

So get with the program, people--there's more to the Jewish world than "Chassidish" and "Litvish".

Platinum Member Joined: May 06 2007 Posts: 8546

The thing is louche, this site is based around a few boxes - them being, chassidish, lubavitch, yeshivish/litvish and modern orthodox- just go to the closed forums and you'll see. That's why people are using these labels, in keeping with the site's parameters...Also, I'm assuming that the majority of people on this site are ashkenazic from a lot of the posts that I've read in the past. When people write, they write about what they know, that's all.
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Just Plain Frum!

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 20 2007 Posts: 4468

I can somewhat relate. It drives me crazy when Israelis talk about Anglo Saxons. Anglophones okay but Anglo Saxons??? They're talking about Jews from English speaking countries. Anglo Saxons? Weren't they tribes who lived in England?

Diamond Member Joined: Dec 04 2006 Posts: 2694

btw, this was always a pet peeve of mine. maybe I should put it in 'words that give you the creeps' thread. 8)

why do some pple think that if a person's not chassidish, then by default they are litvish?
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This American of Russian-Polish ancestry married to a man of Hungarian-French ancestry who is not at all Chassidish agrees, Louche. But what we call ourselves?

Growing up out of town I only knew of two groups:Frum and not frum. If you kept shabbos you were in the frum group, if you didn't you were not frum. Oh, for those simple days....
I remember going to sem in Israel and and being told that I should not do something because Charedim don't do that, but I didn't know what a Chareidi was or that I was one. I still HATE that word....

Platinum Member Joined: Mar 07 2007 Posts: 10429

so many places were the Jerusalem of Europe! Laughing

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Platinum Member Joined: Sep 20 2004 Posts: 17151

Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2007, 6:14 pm Post subject: