Do you live in Israel and have a cleaner?!

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Household Management -> Cleaning & Laundry

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Ruchel

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:29 am

I will assume some with full time help have a harder life than some without.

amother

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:32 am

My dear OP, I have 1 kid and live in a small apartment, and work part time. Granted, I don't have cleaning help, but my house is a mess almost to the point of dysfunction. Guess what? I suffer from mental illness and during my rough patches (like now), I just cannot hold it together. My child is fed, clothed and changed, and my husband and I eat, but that's sometimes about all I can handle. It is totally not your place to judge what goes on in people's homes.

amother

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:35 am

Chayalle wrote:

Whenever I see mothers of large families B"AH, I think that the way I cook for Yom Tov, they cook every night! The way I clean up after Shabbos....they do every day!

I do not think having 6 hours of cleaning help a week makes a mother of a large family spoilt or lazy, even if she is SAHM.

exactly, as I posted on the other thread, homes with a sahm and little kids home get a lot messier than homes where everyone is out all day. there is really nothing lazy about getting help if you can afford it. The only thing that makes me raise my eyebrows a bit is when a family on government programs and still has domestic help. But I guess that is budgeting too.

Shopmiami49

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:47 am

I did not read through all the responses...but wow. Just wow. I can not for the life of me understand where people's attitudes come from.

For the record, for all those judging, did you know that most of us have all of our kids coming home at 1:30 and not 4, like in the US? Did you take into account in your judgement that we have to take part of the precious few hours that we have in the morning to cook a hot lunch, which means a whole nother set of dirty dishes and pots? Did you know that when you have a few+ kids and/or are pregnant that things take a loooong time? Going shopping in this country can take forever, especially if you do not have a car. Bussing anywhere can take a long time.

We have roughly 5 hours in the morning to get stuff done without the kids around - and some of us have our babies and/or toddlers around. In a normal, typical household like this, it is perfectly understandable that people need outside help. We have a lot to get done in such a short period of time. Put this together with slight ADD, pregnancy, not feeling well, etc. and you can easily make the equation on your own.

Oh and I don't know about you, but by the time nighttime rolls around, I am finished. I past those days of being productive in the evening. After a whole afternoon with my darling children who sap me of my energy, lunch, shlepping to and from chugim, making serving and cleaning up from dinner, bathtime, pjs, and bedtime, I have nothing left in me to start cleaning the toilets and moving around furniture for sponga. It waits until the morning, which is part of those 5 hours...

Ilana Tamar

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:58 am

I'm with the poster that says SAHMs need cleaning help more than working moms. There was a time when I had several small children and we were all out of the house at work/school/daycare during peak mess making hours. Our toys only got played with on weekends.

I only had cleaning help every other week for dusting and stuff like that.

SAHMS who have kids that are out during the day are not necessarily getting pedis and eating Bon bons. Some of us just really suck at housekeeping and need all the help we can get.

Some of us have kids underfoot during the day and can't get anything done until they are safely and lovingly tucked away, at which point we feel like crashing, ourselves.

All of us have that friend whose house is always flying and can't seem to get her act together. And then there are some ppl who get help to mask the fact that this is what they would be like without it. U can never judge someone until you see what their house looks like without all the help.

Not everyone is lazy. Some of us just have different capabilities. Not all of us are born balabustas, and it's hard enough for us to feel inferior to those of you that are. Don't go and bash us for seeking help where we desperately need it.

amother

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 10:07 am

amother

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 11:07 am

What's with the bitterness? Why should anyone care about someone else's want or need for help? How does it effect YOU?

And just as a side note, many of the women who pat themselves on the back for working, raising a family and doing all the cooking and cleaning all by themselves.... your homes are not very clean. And that's fine. Not my business or my problem. But some of us don't want to live like that if we don't have to.

cinnamon

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 11:13 am

I didn't read the whole thread but just so people don't get the wrong picture I have to say that I also live in Israel and I can practically count on one hand the people I know who don't have a cleaner and they are all married less than five years.

Many many many people in Israel have cleaners. I personally don't not because I can't afford it but because I choose to spend the money on other convenience.

amother

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 12:29 pm

OP here.

In answer to your questions, yes- of course I post under amother. Do I really want to get skinned alive?

I think most of you (especially the israeli mothers here) are missing my point. Half the threads on this site seem to be about sahm with cleaners and nannies, yet most people I know don't have either and work a lot longer. Of course if you work and have 6 kids I have no issues with you having a cleaner. Even you have 2 kids and work I would understand cleaning help.

But a sahm with a nanny? That seems pretty excessive. And all of you are so desperate to give excuses- but I highly doubt that every sahm with help has a mental issues, or medical issue. Whatever, it's my opinion- I was brought up to work hard, and I just can't understand these people who need cleaning help and DON'T WORK. To me, yes, it's pure laziness. I see how all the women around me live- they get up at the crack of dawn, go to work, come home, pick up their kids from daycare, shlep to the stores with their kids (they don't have a car) then make supper. And guess what? They don't have cleaners, and they somehow manage. Are they are superwomen? Maybe. But this is the society I live in, so can you blame for looking at these sahm with full time nannies or sahm who have cleaners 8 hours a day and feeling like they're a little spoilt?

You can think I'm bitter, or jealous, or whatever you like. We're not a kollel family, and we could afford a cleaner once a week if I really wanted. But I can't bear the thought of throwing money away or something I could do myself. Personally, I'd be embarrassed.

Ok, bashing may now continue Very Happy

amother

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 12:31 pm

Yes I have a housekeeper. She is bathing my baby while I'm surfing imamother. Then I'll nurse her. Then I'm going to the market by myself for food shopping and then I'm going clothing shopping for the chag alone.
No this is not a joke.

Amother above: I hope you're joking. Actually, I really don't care. Sounds a little shallow to me, but whatever...

Tablepoetry

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:05 pm

amother wrote:

. I see how all the women around me live- they get up at the crack of dawn, go to work, come home, pick up their kids from daycare, shlep to the stores with their kids (they don't have a car) then make supper. And guess what? They don't have cleaners, and they somehow manage. Are they are superwomen? Maybe. But this is the society I live in, so can you blame for looking at these sahm with full time nannies or sahm who have cleaners 8 hours a day and feeling like they're a little spoilt?

Listen, women in the sub-saharan desert manage without running water. Great. So they manage. Doesn't mean they're happy about it or that we can't strive for more.
If a woman can hire a cleaner or nanny so she doesn't need to 'schlep to the stores' with all her kids in tow, what's wrong with that?

amother wrote:

.we could afford a cleaner once a week if I really wanted. But I can't bear the thought of throwing money away or something I could do myself. Personally, I'd be embarrassed.

Ok, bashing may now continue Very Happy

Why should you be embarrassed of 'throwing money' away on something you could do yourself? Do you also sew all your own clothes? Never buy a coffee outside, because you can make one at home? Cut your own hair? If so, enjoy.

Many of us see time as a commodity. I have a cleaning lady for 6-8 hours of deeper cleaning per week (things like dishes, clutter and laundry I do myself, daily). So, is that throwing away money because I can do it myself? No, because time is valuable. Hiring out the deeper cleaning allows me breathing space. Otherwise, I'd have to spread those 8 hrs of cleaning throughout the week. I'd have to give up other things that are really important to me....perhaps the nap I have every other day, and really need to function. Or maybe exercise class. Or helping my kids with all their vast amounts of homework.

If I had no choice, I just wouldn't clean so much, and I'd give up on the nap, the exercise, and maybe even some homework time. And I'd feel really overwhelmed. And the house would be pretty dirty.

So.....why pray tell should someone feel even remotely embarrassed to pay for something they can do themselves??

cinnamon

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:07 pm

amother wrote:

This is so mean seriously.
How in the world can you tell if amother is shallow or not?

If anything women who have help tend to have more peace of mind and the ability to think deeper into why they do whatever they do and as such are less shallow.

Working hard for parnasah and child rearing are curses. Punishments. It is not something to strive for.
We are promised that when Mashiach will come we will all sit peacefully in our land. Sitting peacefully, being able to stop and think that is the ideal. Running ragged from morning till night without a second to catch your breath is a manifestation of golus. And turning it into an ideal? I wouldn't be surprised if that is the yetzer hara trying to prevent us from thinking and working on our hitbonenut which is one of the ways to come closer to Hashem.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:11 pm

Maybe I am allowed to answer because I have several children and just switched from being a WOHM to a WAHM and never had cleaning help, but...

You do realize those who stay at home with their kids have a lot more housework than those who have their kids out of the house all day, right? If you conveniently forgot that fact, does that reframe why someone who has children home all day may need more cleaning help than someone who runs a less busy home?

Tablepoetry

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:14 pm

Just to add....those women who work f/t, schlep to the stores with all their kids, and do all the cooking and cleaning on their own...I assure you, most of their homes aren't that clean. That's because most of us are NOT superwomen, and there's only so much someone can do. It's not a lifestyle I aspire to. I get tired just thinking about it.

Now, I understand you are coming from a place where the women seem kind of overworked. So a SAHM with a f/t nanny seems excessive and spoilt to you. I get that. In general, it seems kind of overboard to me too, although I can imagine that a woman could EASILY fill her time just with things connected to child rearing. And maybe some personal development thrown in, like studies or what not. Sounds fun to me.

I'm not angry at these SAHM-with-nanny women, I just hope they make good use of the time they've been given.

The problem is that you mix up this phenomenon with having a cleaner once or twice a week. It's really something else entirely. A SAHM-with-nanny is quite a luxury in most western societies I know of, whereas weekly cleaning help has become rather standard in many circles, especially now that most women work.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:19 pm

And if they're really nothing but lazy? WHO CARES! What makes lazy worse than judgemental?

m in Israel

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:21 pm

amother wrote:

OP here.

You can think I'm bitter, or jealous, or whatever you like. We're not a kollel family, and we could afford a cleaner once a week if I really wanted. But I can't bear the thought of throwing money away or something I could do myself. Personally, I'd be embarrassed.

Ok, bashing may now continue Very Happy

This is the part I truly don't understand. People "throw money away" all the time on things that other people thing are a waste. It is called having different priorities, and I can't figure out why it would be "embarrassing" to you. And I really don't see where laziness comes into this. People are making decisions about how to allocate their resources. If they have the money, why is it "lazy" to spend it?

When we lived in the U.S. for the first 10 years of our marriage, my husband and I always filed our taxes ourselves. I knew plenty of people who paid accountants to do it for them. I would never dream of thinking, much less saying "how can you throw away money on something you could do yourself?" I understood that some people have a harder time understanding paperwork, some people get overwhelmed with numbers, some people would rather spend the money then the time, etc. Just because we decided that in that particular case we'd rather spend the time and effort to do it ourselves didn't mean that someone else who decided to pay an accountant was "throwing away money".

The same can be said for all sorts of professional services. Some people pay a barber for their kids' haircuts while others learn to do it themselves. Some people pay a handyman to build a Sukkah, others do it themselves. Some people buy Challah and cake in a bakery while others bake it at home. Some people buy more ready made grocery products, while others make things from scratch.

In each case a family will decide for themselves whether the money is worth more or less than the time involved. When I was young my mother sewed all our clothing. She was good at it and willing to spend the time to save money. I would never sew clothing from scratch -- it is just not worth it to me. But I do minor alterations myself, when others may choose to hire a seamstress to do that.

I find it hard to believe that you NEVER pay someone else to do something that you can technically do yourself. The point is that to you in the case of cleaning the money is worth more than the effort. That is a perfectly legitimate point of view. But for others who have different priorities, that may not be the case.

Personally, I feel the money I pay a cleaning lady is worth every penny. I don't like cleaning, and although of course I CAN do it myself, it is not one of the things I choose to do. I save money in other areas that I feel affect my quality of life less. I don't think this decision makes me lazier than other people. I certainly feel that I am luckier than many others who may not have the resources to make this choice.

sweetpotato

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:23 pm

Some mothers have to work two full time jobs to make ends meet. Some mothers are single mothers and have to work full time and raise their children alone. Some mothers are also caring for elderly parents, or take in foster children. And so forth. Are you lazier than them because your burden is relatively lighter? You live in a first world country--are you lazier than mothers living in developing countries? It's all relative. Some families have more financial resources than others. Some are better off than you, you're better off than others. What you take for granted may be viewed as a big luxury by someone with less.

Shopmiami49

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 1:35 pm

amother wrote:

OP, what exactly is your agenda? You are racking up your numbers and your skewed judgement...for what purpose? Trying to earn yourself brownie points before Rosh Hashana? Give your self a pat on the back, OP, well done well done.

And quite frankly, I don't think anyone here really cares if you would be embarrassed or not. None of us are doing what we need to do with you in mind. We are doing what is best for our families. A lot of people here have brought up some good and valid points and you seem intent on convincing us all that we are lazy, spoiled, not superwomen, should be embarrassed of ourselves...all because YOU think it's a waste of money. Please, OP, take your ego somewhere else. No here is interested.

mom in france

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 4:55 pm

amother wrote:

I personally think that cleaning help.is NOT a luxury. But what bothers me is just , why dont u bathe ur baby? Its a good time to bond. Do u play & spend time with your baby, generally etc?

amother

Wed, Sep 17 2014, 5:32 pm

I'm posting from the other point...

I work as a cleaner I live in Israel, and yes I get booked up. my clientele is mainly American/ or English speaking, I don't go nto their business why they need, but what I can see is that they def appreciate a clean house. I work for kollel fams, with large fams, yes it might be an expense, but for some people it's just worth it also they have peace of mind that once a week the floors get a good wash and the bathrooms get cleaned... I do mainly sponja and bathrooms...

Page 2 of 6

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next