Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Household Management -> Cleaning & Laundry
Do you live in Israel and have a cleaner?!
  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 7:41 am
Posting anon as I know I'll get screamed at for stating my opinion.

I live in Israel. I live in a fairly Anglo community, where some husbands work and some are in kollel. I barely know ANYONE who has a cleaner, let alone a 'nanny'. Yes, its due to financial reasons and people can't afford it, but almost every woman I know works at least half day and they would never dream of hiring a cleaner. I just find these threads of being a SAHM with a full time nanny or having a cleaner for 21 (!) hours a week a complete joke. These women have kids, and cook and do laundry and clean. Its hard, but that's life. I feel like some of these women with nannies should come to Israel and see what kind of life people live here. Yes, they've chosen it, but it just seems to me like having a nanny is completely spoilt. I have one friend who's a SAHM and has a cleaner twice a week. Yes, I think of her as 'lazy'. And if she complains about finances, I think I know where she could cut down. No, she doesn't have 8 or even 3 kids, or medical issues.

I know I'll get bashed by this post. I'm not american, I'm not wealthy, and the thought of a nanny is very foreign to me. I grew up with a cleaner once a week (my parents both worked full time) and can't help but think these women are just lazy and spoilt. Sorry, that's my opinion.
Back to top

flmommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 7:50 am
Yes you are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion calling everyone who has a nanny or cleaner or lazy is rude, especially as amother. I hope you feel better now that you expressed your opinion and made other women feel bad.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 7:59 am
Delete
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:06 am
amother wrote:
Posting anon as I know I'll get screamed at for stating my opinion.

I live in Israel. I live in a fairly Anglo community, where some husbands work and some are in kollel. I barely know ANYONE who has a cleaner, let alone a 'nanny'. Yes, its due to financial reasons and people can't afford it, but almost every woman I know works at least half day and they would never dream of hiring a cleaner. I just find these threads of being a SAHM with a full time nanny or having a cleaner for 21 (!) hours a week a complete joke. These women have kids, and cook and do laundry and clean. Its hard, but that's life. I feel like some of these women with nannies should come to Israel and see what kind of life people live here. Yes, they've chosen it, but it just seems to me like having a nanny is completely spoilt. I have one friend who's a SAHM and has a cleaner twice a week. Yes, I think of her as 'lazy'. And if she complains about finances, I think I know where she could cut down. No, she doesn't have 8 or even 3 kids, or medical issues.

I know I'll get bashed by this post. I'm not american, I'm not wealthy, and the thought of a nanny is very foreign to me. I grew up with a cleaner once a week (my parents both worked full time) and can't help but think these women are just lazy and spoilt. Sorry, that's my opinion.
OP, I am the poster who started this thread: http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....nanny
This family lives in israel, not america or europe or elsewhere, but Israel. Fine its not a kollel community at all, but still in Israel.
It has nothing to do with the country you live in, or you financial situation (as I mentioned in that other thread, the family who I was wondering about is not financially wealthy or anything. They have one salary.)
Its a choice and there are many reasons (as I learned from the other thread Wink )
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:15 am
amother wrote:
I fear this thread will get dangerous so I am being anon as well.

People who merit to live in Israel are on a higher level. If they are not then the land vomits them out. (I live in chu'l, but used to live in israel). That's why they can do extraordinary things that those in chu'l cannot.

Generally, however, they tend also to be quite good at being Dan lchav zechut.

I am sorry that you are feeling that your burden is so challenging at the moment. Let me give you a bracha that you will have a sweet year and not feel overburdened by what you need to do in the world.
this is a bit off topic, but WHAT???? Not everyone who lives in israel is on a higher level than others. Trust me. Have you been all over israel. Not everyone is on a high level. And they are not being vomited out.

And just because someone has a lot of cleaning help or a nanny does not mean that they are not on a high level.
Back to top

Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:17 am
Ladies, this may be breaking news to you - but in many, many circles in Israel, it's considered pretty standard to have a cleaning lady.
I'm talking about regular Israeli families, lower middle class to middle class. Very, very standard. In fact, it's so popular that it's really tough to find an available cleaning lady - they're all 'taken'.

I've lived in quite a few cities here in Israel, and most Israelis are not on some sort of 'madrega' where they think that a cleaning lady is superfluous. On the contrary, many Israelis really value a clean home, and the moment they can afford it, they hire cleaning help. Don't forget that most women here work at least p/t.

Of course, the standard here is once a week, something like 4-6 hrs at a time. But I have the feeling if Israelis as a whole could afford more, they'd hire more help. They're not lazy - there is no mitzvah in being overwhelmed.

Just had to deflate that myth.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:19 am
Each woman knows their needs and make choices. You have an opinion, but Ithink you cant call lazy a person because they have a cleaning lady.
I have obe once a week for few hours and I clean , organize along with her, we r not wealthy but the fact of having her helps me to be sane and happy and give my family a clean home. It's a luxury that I. Choose over buying shoes or clothing.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:22 am
Msg to shabatiscoming: mmmmmm .... I thought that this would get dangerous. I take your point and sincerely apologise for causing offence and for making you feel angry.

Kasiva vchasima tova to you especially and to anyone else who is following this thread.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:24 am
Tablepoetry wrote:
Ladies, this may be breaking news to you - but in many, many circles in Israel, it's considered pretty standard to have a cleaning lady.
I'm talking about regular Israeli families, lower middle class to middle class. Very, very standard. In fact, it's so popular that it's really tough to find an available cleaning lady - they're all 'taken'.

I've lived in quite a few cities here in Israel, and most Israelis are not on some sort of 'madrega' where they think that a cleaning lady is superfluous. On the contrary, many Israelis really value a clean home, and the moment they can afford it, they hire cleaning help. Don't forget that most women here work at least p/t.

Of course, the standard here is once a week, something like 4-6 hrs at a time. But I have the feeling if Israelis as a whole could afford more, they'd hire more help. They're not lazy - there is no mitzvah in being overwhelmed.

Just had to deflate that myth.
Thank you table. Yes, yes, yes!!!! Smile Smile Smile
You said it very well.

The OP is talking about a certain population, obviously. Ill say that most of my friends / neighbors (not all but most) have a cleaning person at least once a week. I have one. I would be lost without him. Just the big all over the house sponga and bathroom things.
And Im with you about the madrega thing too.
Back to top

Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:24 am
amother wrote:
Posting anon as I know I'll get screamed at for stating my opinion.

I live in Israel. I live in a fairly Anglo community, where some husbands work and some are in kollel. I barely know ANYONE who has a cleaner, let alone a 'nanny'.


Actually most people I know DO have a cleaner. They're not rich by any means, but it's a priority (not poor either).



amother wrote:
These women have kids, and cook and do laundry and clean. Its hard, but that's life.


Why does life HAVE to be hard? If someone can afford making life less hard, what's wrong with that? Must we suffer just so everyone thinks we're so hard-working?

For the record, most women I know have someone in once a week to do the heavier cleaning - there's still plenty to do all week, dishes, laundry and the like.

Also, many Israelis have high standards of cleanliness, and still spend a lot of time cleaning, even with help.

[/quote]
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:28 am
Well I am a lazy, spoilt SAHM with all her kids in school who has cleaning help for six hours a week.

I have a large family, laundry alone can take hours a day and that is without ironing.
Have you seen how dust accumulates?
A large family where the bathrooms are used a lot, how often do you think they should be cleaned?
How long do you think it takes to change the linens on 13 beds?
Cooking supper for a big crowd takes time.

I could go on!

I really want to know why you care if someone has household help. The only reason I can think of is that someone is jealous.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:45 am
I am the another who wrote the stupid post about people in Israel being on a higher madreiga. Let me try again. I just felt that the op seemed to be feeling overwhelmed with her lot in life and wanted to give her some chizuk. (Op you are doing a great job!!! ). I felt that if she was feeling ok in herself she would have no need to comment on other women having more help than her.

Op I hope ypu feel better soon. The right words don't seem to be coming to me so I will stop now.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 8:50 am
amother wrote:
I am the another who wrote the stupid post about people in Israel being on a higher madreiga. Let me try again. I just felt that the op seemed to be feeling overwhelmed with her lot in life and wanted to give her some chizuk. (Op you are doing a great job!!! ). I felt that if she was feeling ok in herself she would have no need to comment on other women having more help than her.

Op I hope ypu feel better soon. The right words don't seem to be coming to me so I will stop now.
That is NOT what you wrote. Your two posts are not the same at all. Just pointing that out.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:10 am
Crazy vomiting another her again, shabat is coming:-/ It looks like you missed my appolgy directed to you personally above.

The line about the the land vomiting out its inhabitants comes from the Torah in Parshat Acherei Mot. I have learned in the past 10 Minutes that the Brisker Rav quoting the Netziv says that the land does not vomit us out now so long as there are some people who are keeping Torah and mitzvot, bc it would have to throw them out at once , and it won't throw out people who are keeping mitzvot. I am terriy sorry to have misrepresented the Torah before (and probably now again).

I guess I have always felt that I personally was 'thrown out' of the land bc I was not good enough to live there, and wanted to indicate to the op that she was better than that. But I have not managed to do that, rather only to inflame lots of people and to misrepresent the Torah as well.
I am very sorry to have done this.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:13 am
There are many people without a cleaner in Europe too.

OP if you are happy with the life you chose, allow the same to others.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:16 am
amother wrote:
Posting anon as I know I'll get screamed at for stating my opinion.

I live in Israel. I live in a fairly Anglo community, where some husbands work and some are in kollel. I barely know ANYONE who has a cleaner, let alone a 'nanny'. Yes, its due to financial reasons and people can't afford it, but almost every woman I know works at least half day and they would never dream of hiring a cleaner. I just find these threads of being a SAHM with a full time nanny or having a cleaner for 21 (!) hours a week a complete joke. These women have kids, and cook and do laundry and clean. Its hard, but that's life. I feel like some of these women with nannies should come to Israel and see what kind of life people live here. Yes, they've chosen it, but it just seems to me like having a nanny is completely spoilt. I have one friend who's a SAHM and has a cleaner twice a week. Yes, I think of her as 'lazy'. And if she complains about finances, I think I know where she could cut down. No, she doesn't have 8 or even 3 kids, or medical issues.

I know I'll get bashed by this post. I'm not american, I'm not wealthy, and the thought of a nanny is very foreign to me. I grew up with a cleaner once a week (my parents both worked full time) and can't help but think these women are just lazy and spoilt. Sorry, that's my opinion.

I think people who post anonymously to insult others are cowardly.
Sorry, that's my opinion.
Back to top

Racheli




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:17 am
There are communities in Israel where it is standard to have a live in round the clock housekeeper. And I say kol hakvod to people who live in Israel and I wish they could all have whatever household help they want or need.
Back to top

m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:19 am
OP, I also live in a pretty Anglo community with a mixture of people learning and working, and it is a pretty yeshivish area (American style Chareidi, I guess). And a very large number of people here have cleaning help. I definitely don't think your acquaintances are representative of any widespread demographic phenomenon.

My experience is that most people here would gladly hire cleaning help if they could afford it -- I haven't met anyone who "would never dream of hiring a cleaner"! They dream all right -- but obviously you cannot buy what you can't afford (although based on the percentage of the Israeli population whose bank accounts are in "minus" maybe I shouldn't say that so definitively" Wink )

But guess what -- there are poor people in America, too. And most poor people don't have cleaning help. I don't think that location has anything to do with it. IOW, both in the U.S. and in Israel, some people can afford help, and some people can't. If you live in a community that is poorer, you will know less people who can afford to hire domestic help.

And as far as spending money goes, I personally think that cleaning help is a pretty good use of resources, for someone who can afford it. If you want to criticize people for excessive spending, I can think of a lot of areas that are much more frivolous than hiring a cleaner -- or even a nanny.

And what do you mean that "it's hard, but that's life?" For people who have help, that is also "life". There is no rule that life has to be hard in any specific way (everyone has their challenges, but not everyone has things "hard" in the same way).

Now if your friend in fact has financial issues, then it may be irresponsible of her to be hiring a cleaner -- but that is a completely different issue, and has more to do with financial irresponsibility than "laziness".
Back to top

Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:26 am
amother wrote:
I have one friend who's a SAHM and has a cleaner twice a week. Yes, I think of her as 'lazy'. And if she complains about finances, I think I know where she could cut down. No, she doesn't have 8 or even 3 kids, or medical issues.


How do you know?
Back to top

Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:28 am
amother wrote:
Well I am a lazy, spoilt SAHM with all her kids in school who has cleaning help for six hours a week.

I have a large family, laundry alone can take hours a day and that is without ironing.
Have you seen how dust accumulates?
A large family where the bathrooms are used a lot, how often do you think they should be cleaned?
How long do you think it takes to change the linens on 13 beds?
Cooking supper for a big crowd takes time.

I could go on!

I really want to know why you care if someone has household help. The only reason I can think of is that someone is jealous.


Whenever I see mothers of large families B"AH, I think that the way I cook for Yom Tov, they cook every night! The way I clean up after Shabbos....they do every day!


I do not think having 6 hours of cleaning help a week makes a mother of a large family spoilt or lazy, even if she is SAHM.
Back to top
Page 1 of 6   1  2  3  4  5  6  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Cleaning & Laundry

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Comparing usa to Israel on here
by amother
36 Today at 5:25 am View last post
Gift basket that supports Israel 5 Today at 3:03 am View last post
Going to Israel for vacation in the Summer
by amother
6 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 7:37 pm View last post
Who sells the best Sheitls in RBS Israel
by amother
12 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:07 pm View last post
Names for Israel
by amother
16 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 3:39 pm View last post