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College Educated Parents:
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 12:16 pm
sabich wrote:
Op I have dc who have or are taking arts degrees, history or literature etc. I feel strongly education is really important in itself and a good education leads to a good career. I live in Uk where degrees are now paid by students through student loans, many of my peers insist kids do a vocational degree to avoid debt or maximise earning potential. As a parent who had a first class education, doing an arts degree before studying law I feel it wrong to deny my child when young the chance of studying something they love. Education is not just about earning a salary but being a cultured refined person. Life is not just about making money, education should not just be about money either.


That.
If not, then they should get this education in another way, on their own or whatever. Jews were never uncultured compared to the society around.

The new generation likes to get machmir and forbid uni, so good, frum unis have opened at the same time! lol only problem is paying for a private uni...
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amother


 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 12:39 pm
When my dc are adults, it is their lives to live. I cannot dictate college or a parnassah plan. I cannot tell them that their actions are wrong or not smart. I cannot "sit them down" for a reality check. I can give some motherly advice, but, nothing more. If they have lived with me all these years, they know what I feel and they know my direction. They are fully aware that we did go to college and would like our dc too attend as well. But, you cannot tell an adult child they are wrong. They are adults at this point and it is their own life to live. If they want to go right wing or left wing from me, then so be it. I just pray they stay frum jews and appreciate the lifestyle I raised them with. I pray they aren't bitter unhappy people. I pray they love life and marry well. I pray they raise beautiful children. I pray they have no problems. But, that is the only thing I can do. Pray.

Theirs is not my life to live. But, I will be there for them whenever they request backup with no strings attached.

I have a brother who went right. And, he and his wife and their beautiful children are happy. How they pay their bills? I don't know. But, I know college educated people who have a hard time as well. All I can do is love him for who he is, not who I want him to be.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 12:49 pm
amother wrote:
Was med school difficult w/o a bio or chem major for u?


Not that poster but I was pre med too and honestly many pre med students are not science majors or at least do a non science minor. Med schools prefer well rounded candidates.
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ElTam




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 2:01 pm
As long as they were going to get some sort of training to prepare them for parnassah, it would not have to be college. But if their plan was to live on tzedakah and parental money, that would be a non-starter for me.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 2:19 pm
I am fine with my kids becoming right-wing and eschewing college, in favor of limudei kodesh. But not just doing nothing instead, and like ElTam said- don't expect that I will pay your bills.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 2:30 pm
amother wrote:
How would u feel if your child did not want to go to college? Or went and dropped out? Because they want to be more right wing, not because of academics....


I'd be horrified.

Not because I have anything against right wing Judaism per se. But because my core belief is that all education is good, that there is no such thing as lost learning. Secular. Religious. Anything.

I would be horrified if my child were to reject that. If he were to take the position that he could not be in college because of his religious beliefs.

(My other core belief is that adults support themselves. So if he would be expecting me to be supporting him long-term, for any reasons other than emergencies, he'd better think again.)
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Imogen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 4:22 pm
Chayalle wrote:
What if the thing they want to study when they are young is Torah, and they want to be more right wing while they are at it?

That may be part of the OP's question.


Chayalle you are absolutely right! I did not consider properly that part of OP question.

Yes if my kids want to study Torah and then feel compromised when considering a secular degree we would and have indeed worked it out. My eldest ds went to a haredi yeshiva in Jerusalem and upon his return to Uk choose to do a work related degree.His university was chosen not just for its academic excellence but for its proximity to a Torah learning programme for university students, he is next to a kollel/yeshiva. His day starts early, shul/chavrusa and then university, back at night to kollel. He knows he needs a degree and worked hard to find a way to make it work for him. I was an academic snob and it broke my heart he did not want to attend the very best university in uk which had accepted him, but recognised most important was he felt happy. He is right wing in a religious sense but wants to be self sufficient in life and not seeking handouts from us, hence need for a degree but on his terms. His university is one of the top ten in the UK and there are quite a few haredi students there, most combining secular studies alongside Torah learning each day.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 4:40 pm
amother wrote:
IF my dc had a concrete plan for parnossoh, e.g. went to vocational training for something real, and not "I'll go into some sort of business", then that would be, perhaps a bit disappointing from a bragging-rights POV, but it would be ok. The problem is my dc who has been in post-HS yeshiva for way too many years, rejects college as being totally tref, but has no plan whatsoever. he has known from grade school that we can't and won't support him, he knows he has and we have nothing to offer a wealthy prospective shidduch in the way of prestige, connections or expectations of a lush yerusha. He also knows that beis medrash is not an accredited educational institution, he has aged out of coverage under our health insurance and is now one of the millions of Americans who have no health insurance. For that alone I want him to enroll some accredited post-secondary institution. If it's auto-mechanic school, so be it. Those guys have no prestige, but they make money hand over fist.


I'm sure you realize these are likely symptoms of a larger problem, yes?
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Aug 30 2014, 2:57 pm
I agree with what previous posters said about having a plan for parnassa.

It would also depend on what exactly they didn't like about college. They want to focus on something else? OK. They think it's a waste of time and money, because they don't plan to use the degree? Also reasonable. They think idea of a college education, in any field, is "treif" in and of itself? Problem.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Aug 30 2014, 4:34 pm
I don't think college is necessary at all, honestly. My family has been one of these "everyone must go to college" types since my father's generation. Which I never understood because my grandfather who didn't go to college became independently wealthy from his own hard work and my uncle who didn't go to college is more financially secure than, say, my father who got a degree in English and manages the family clothing store. And I was pushed into college as a pretty new BT in a not even remotely frum environment, and ended up wasting four years feeling miserable and guilty and graduating with a degree I've not used since. Then I got married, and my husband who didn't graduate college is far more employable with his skill set and apprenticeships than I am with my history degree.

And having been there myself, I would be horrified if any child of mine wanted to go away to a secular university, though if they lived at home and took classes I'd be supportive.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Aug 30 2014, 5:23 pm
I would also never encourage going away- I'm not even into going away to sem lol but uni? noooo. Especially now that the "campus life" concept is starting here... I don't like it at all.

That said grandparents time was so very different. And often started from very scratch, something our younguns generally refuse now.
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2014, 12:41 am
I don't regard being dependent on your wife's income as a "plan." I'm not all that fond of staying at home being a woman's plan, either, even though I currently do it. Barring special circumstances, a person needs the ability to earn their own income.

If my son wanted to drop out of college so he could be a plumber or a mechanic then that's fine. But he needs a parnasa. I wouldn't like it if his prime motivation was that college is treif.

As for the old days... Jobs were different. Factory jobs are gone. Some jobs that used to be trade school are now college. For better or worse my children need to train for the job market we have, and not the job market we wish we had. The tuition problem... I worry. But I don't think that the need for additional education is going to go away. Even the small business market, which is how many families (including my own) got established, is very different now. My grandparents were a different time and a different world, and just because it worked for them doesn't mean it will work for my children.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2014, 2:38 am
amother wrote:
IF my dc had a concrete plan for parnossoh, e.g. went to vocational training for something real, and not "I'll go into some sort of business", then that would be, perhaps a bit disappointing from a bragging-rights POV, but it would be ok. The problem is my dc who has been in post-HS yeshiva for way too many years, rejects college as being totally tref, but has no plan whatsoever. he has known from grade school that we can't and won't support him, he knows he has and we have nothing to offer a wealthy prospective shidduch in the way of prestige, connections or expectations of a lush yerusha. He also knows that beis medrash is not an accredited educational institution, he has aged out of coverage under our health insurance and is now one of the millions of Americans who have no health insurance. For that alone I want him to enroll some accredited post-secondary institution. If it's auto-mechanic school, so be it. Those guys have no prestige, but they make money hand over fist.


I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in where auto mechanics make money "hand over fist." Unless you think greeters at Walmart are doing pretty well.

My father is an auto mechanic, and a very successful one at that. We had enough. Enough clothes. Enough food. A decent home. No complaints. But we were far from rich. And in the long run, it is far more likely that his kids will support him than vice versa. He has slowed down over the years, from 6-1/2 days to only 6, and now to 5.

Let me tell,you what he told all of his kids about being an auto mechanic. Study hard and do well in school so you don't have to do what I do.
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