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Mishpacha -p23 - Can You Afford this Shidduch?
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 1:29 pm
Can You Afford This Shidduch by Rabbi Shneur Aisenstark.

Quote:
Nowadays, shidduchim often depend on the promise of the girl earning a complete living wage. A student in our seminary described a frightening perspective on this topic: Girls who might have been willing to be [I]Moser Nefesh
to live a Kollel life for an extended period of time are no longer looking for such a shidduch out of fear that the burden of Parnassah will fall completely on their shoulders, alongside her main tafkid of being an eim b'Yisroel. [/quote]

Quote:
Yeshivah students... ought to take their Kesubah and all it entails very seriously. It calls for the husband to feed, clothe and house his wife - not the reverse. An eishes Chayil can help if she is willing and able, but it's not her obligation. Parents and Mechutanim can also choose to help, but should not be forced to do so in order to marry off their daughter.
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malkacooks




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 1:34 pm
well said
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proudema




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 2:28 pm
It was very well written. I agree with pretty much everything he said. The question is; who will listen?
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doctorima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 4:36 pm
I was impressed by him for writing it, and for Mishpacha for having the courage to publish it.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 6:11 pm
I was very impressed by what he said and how he said it, he certainly didn't pull any punches. Plus I completely agree. I wonder what the response will be.

(Was better than the Binah fluff piece about how to make you and your kids look good in photos Rolling Eyes )
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 7:27 pm
Loved the piece and so did dh! Kudos to him for saying it straight and to the magazine for printing it
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:00 pm
proudema wrote:
It was very well written. I agree with pretty much everything he said. The question is; who will listen?


It's all unrealistic.

If a girl says, "I want to be a SAHM and my family can't support but I want to marry someone in learning," how many shidduchim will she get? ZERO.


If a girl says, "I am willing to work for a few years and my parents can support for two," she will get shidduchim.

The reality is, when it comes to learning, $$$ = Shidduchim.
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:08 pm
That was part of the point-it's not fair for the boys to expect support from parents and inlaws or that the wife should work endlessly while the husband learns.
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Levtov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:27 pm
In the same Mishpacha in LIFELINES there was a story directly connected to Rabbi Aisenstark's very relevant and important message. The story of how parents instilled hatred into their daughter due to the fact that her rich in-laws did not support their son. She was happy with her husband, but parents constant "hetzing" turned her marriage into a nightmare till a teacher opened her eyes. Only after her husband and herself became self-sufficient, both worked and needed neither parents support...did she appreciate her marriage and her husband. Moral of the story...Wives constantly working and having pregnancies and babies every year IS POISON FOR A MARRIAGE!!! (IMHO).....
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:33 pm
Levtov wrote:
In the same Mishpacha in LIFELINES there was a story directly connected to Rabbi Aisenstark's very relevant and important message. The story of how parents instilled hatred into their daughter due to the fact that her rich in-laws did not support their son. She was happy with her husband, but parents constant "hetzing" turned her marriage into a nightmare till a teacher opened her eyes. Only after her husband and herself became self-sufficient, both worked and needed neither parents support...did she appreciate her marriage and her husband. Moral of the story...Wives constantly working and having pregnancies and babies every year IS POISON FOR A MARRIAGE!!! (IMHO).....


You wrote your point well, but I honestly don't think that was the moral of the story.

I think the moral was that her parent's meddling is what poisoned her marriage.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:36 pm
amother wrote:
You wrote your point well, but I honestly don't think that was the moral of the story.

I think the moral was that her parent's meddling is what poisoned her marriage.


That. And the fact that a person who feels entitled will never be happy.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:40 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
That. And the fact that a person who feels entitled will never be happy.


....AND THE FACT...that parents that support, feel they can control couple!
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:44 pm
amother wrote:
....AND THE FACT...that parents that support, feel they can control couple!


I didn't think they were controlling because they were supporting. I thought they were extremely resentful about the fact that the support they thought she was entitled to was not coming.
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goodmorning




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 8:56 pm
studying_torah wrote:
That was part of the point-it's not fair for the boys to expect support from parents and inlaws or that the wife should work endlessly while the husband learns.


Then why is it a "frightening" idea that "girls who might have been willing to be moser nefesh
to live a Kollel life for an extended period of time are no longer looking for such a shidduch out of fear that the burden of Parnassah will fall completely on their shoulders, alongside her main tafkid of being an eim b'Yisroel"?

Shouldn't it be good that girls will no longer be exploited in that way?

(I didn't read the article and am not a particular fan of the role of money in shidduchim. I just don't understand how it can be "frightening" for people to opt out of a system that you think is wrong.)
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:07 pm
I think that many people resent when they HAVE to do something. So if someone comes into a marriage saying "I'd love to learn, but I do understand it's my responsibility to support you, how can we make this work?" the prospective wife is probably happy to say "I'm willing to work for as long as I'm able to" knowing that it's not her BURDEN but rather her CHOICE that she can rescind at any moment (if practical -- most households will need dual income once you reach school aged children, especially if the husband is coming out of kollel and doesn't have a 7 figure job lined up, but that's another issue entirely)....just knowing not everything is on her shoulders will be tremendously liberating.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:25 pm
That is exactly the point of the article! Good boys WILL NOT consider a shidduch, UNLESS parents and girl are willing to support his long-term learning!!!!
I know a great girl in Lakewood. Her father is a Chusheva person, a rebbi in a school. She is the oldest of 10 children kh. She cannot find a decent boy interested in her because her father CANNOT support her and neither does her teaching (aide to first grade) support her either!
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:29 pm
Good boys equals long term learning? That's where the distortion lies.
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goodmorning




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:31 pm
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:
I think that many people resent when they HAVE to do something. So if someone comes into a marriage saying "I'd love to learn, but I do understand it's my responsibility to support you, how can we make this work?" the prospective wife is probably happy to say "I'm willing to work for as long as I'm able to" knowing that it's not her BURDEN but rather her CHOICE that she can rescind at any moment (if practical -- most households will need dual income once you reach school aged children, especially if the husband is coming out of kollel and doesn't have a 7 figure job lined up, but that's another issue entirely)....just knowing not everything is on her shoulders will be tremendously liberating.


So these girls are all prepared to work and support their husbands but are afraid that they will marry jerks who will push their noses into the grindstones even as they are on pregnant and on bedrest and taking care of their 1 year old quadruplets and will say, "Ha! You promised! I will not let you quit!"?
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:33 pm
amother wrote:
That is exactly the point of the article! Good boys WILL NOT consider a shidduch, UNLESS parents and girl are willing to support his long-term learning!!!!
I know a great girl in Lakewood. Her father is a Chusheva person, a rebbi in a school. She is the oldest of 10 children kh. She cannot find a decent boy interested in her because her father CANNOT support her and neither does her teaching (aide to first grade) support her either!


And I take it she can't open a playgroup because there are too many...
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goodmorning




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:34 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
Good boys equals long term learning? That's where the distortion lies.


Does "good boy" equal long-term learning? It wasn't clear from amother's post. (But if that is what you meant, what does your friend think about the finances in her home iy"H if she cannot support a family and she wants to marry someone who will be long-term learning?)

(I am not trying to turn into the posterboard for monetary demands during shidduchim. I just don't understand attitudes like amother's.)
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