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Spinoff- why are short skirts better then pants?
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amother


 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 4:33 pm
spinoff from the 3 yr old in boropark thread-
I'm seriously curious- why do some people think it's "better" to dress little girls in skirts that don't cover their knees without leggings then to put leggings on underneath or just put them in pants altogether. I understand if you hold that they have to be tznius and wear skirts that cover their knees, its the preference for short skirts that I don't get. not bashing, just curious?
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 4:37 pm
its not about tznius its about conforming to a certain look. leggings dont fit that look
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out-of-towner




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 4:45 pm
Perhaps for Chinuch purposes?
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 4:49 pm
My almost 5 year old still wears plain leggings sometimes (like today) and she wears legging under her skirts too. Her school never said anything, but it never even occurred to me that they might. Then again we are not in BP.....
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 5:02 pm
causemommysaid wrote:
its not about tznius its about conforming to a certain look. leggings dont fit that look

And mini skirts do?
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 5:27 pm
We hold, according to the chazon ish I believe, that they don't have to be tznius but for chinuch reasons we dress girls in skirts from age 3 and up, as that's around the age they are aware they are different than boys. Its just a way to gradually start chinuch. They can still wear leggings underneath and show their elbows as well as their knees until age 6 which is age of chinuch for tznius.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 1:24 pm
Here, skirts are not mandatory until kita alef.
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Isramom8




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 4:42 pm
In my mixed city in Israel, the principal of our chain of gamin (preschool classes) wants all the girls to wear skirts, even if they are younger than 3. I think it's because most people in our city won't understand about ages, and will be confused if they see girls in these frum gamin allowed to be wearing pants.

The ganenet of the 4 year olds did talk to certain parents who were sending their daughters in short, tight skirts. It kind of defeats the purpose.

I find that in Chareidi Israeli Litvish circles, gan chova (kindergarten) is the age that girls are expected to conform to all the tznius guidelines on the level of girls up to high school age.

Our chizuk school requires long socks only from 6th grade.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 4:58 pm
... and why are tights-under-a-skirt better than leggings-under-a-skirt from a tzniut perspective?
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 5:14 pm
leggings are pants, and shouldn't be worn at all, except maybe under long nightgowns

eta - Rolling Eyes Wink
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 6:24 pm
Kids school normally asks for skirts in gan alef (3), but toleration until a year after or so.
Personally apart from pj/onesie/baby look, I don't find pants look beautiful at all on a girl or a woman. I'll put an infant in leggings and tunic, but just don't enjoy without a tunic or skirt.
My girl babies are in dresses when they're dressed. and tiny tights are luv lol!
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 7:07 pm
chani8 wrote:
leggings are pants, and shouldn't be worn at all, except maybe under long nightgowns

eta - Rolling Eyes Wink


What are leggings? Are they what is called in Israel 'tights-im' ? (yes, ironically, since they are not tights....they are form fitting soft pants).
If so, my girls find them soooooo much more comfortable than the original 'tights'/nylons.
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Isramom8




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 7:29 pm
Yes, in Israeli Hebrew, leggings are called "tights", and tights are called "garbiyonim".

My daughters are allowed to wear leggings to school if they are completely concealed by the skirt and can't be seen.
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Pineapple




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 9:57 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
We hold, according to the chazon ish I believe, that they don't have to be tznius but for chinuch reasons we dress girls in skirts from age 3 and up, as that's around the age they are aware they are different than boys. Its just a way to gradually start chinuch. They can still wear leggings underneath and show their elbows as well as their knees until age 6 which is age of chinuch for tznius.


I was told earlier than 6
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 10:40 pm
I dress DD-3 in skirts because she is old enough to get that girls wear skirts (and asks for them) - in the winter (her first winter just after turning 3) she wore pants a few times because they were warmer, but most of the time only wanted to wear skirts, which I encouraged. I would not put her in a skirt that barely covers her bottom or looks like a non-tznius style, but because she's only 3 I don't care that it doesn't cover her knees because the actual law doesn't apply yet, we just want them to get the idea of what a Jewish young lady looks like while still being comfortable and unpressured. They don't look like "mini skirts" they just aren't quite below-the-knee length. When they start looking like mini skirts they're ready to retire. I use leggings under skirts in cool weather, interchangeably with tights, depends what is clean and goes with the outfit. As of this winter, she was still wearing some short-dress-with-leggings outfits (to her mind they were dresses. I think that's a big part of it - what the kid perceives, because that's where the chinuch is) but I think we will retire that style for next year when she's closer to 4.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 12 2014, 10:47 pm
Little girls look so cute in leggings and miniskirts.

Why dress a little kid like an adult.... Let kids be kids... To echo my mom- a kid has her whole life ahead of her IY"H to dress tznius, let her look young and carefree as long as she can.

I guess there are different opinions on the matter, but I'll definitely stick with the more maikil opinion on this one.
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 13 2014, 12:08 am
Isramom8 wrote:
Yes, in Israeli Hebrew, leggings are called "tights", and tights are called "garbiyonim".

My daughters are allowed to wear leggings to school if they are completely concealed by the skirt and can't be seen.


Got it. My girls thankfullly are allowed to wear leggings to school,even visibly. I can't imagine why having a visible legging would be different than visible tights. Often, in any case, if they are wearing boots or higher shoes you can't see the bottom of the legging and it's not that obvious whether they are leggings or tights.

Leggings don't run, and they fit so much more comfy.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 13 2014, 1:08 am
Another point in favor of short skirts is that they are sooooo much easier to find, especially for this age. ALL toddler size skirts seem to be really short.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 13 2014, 1:19 am
I don't understand why leggings (tights in Israel) are not acceptable and tights (garbayonim in Israel) are. Leggings/tights are usually thicker than tights/garbayonim, so if anything, I would figure it is the preferred option.

Perhaps it has more to do with "modern/secular people wear leggings and we would want anyone to confuse us with THEM" than concerns with actual tznius.

I'll dress my daughter in whatever she needs to wear to stay warm and comfortable. In winter, that means pants (if I have to pop a skirt over it to satisfy someone's idea of tsnius, then fine) or a skirt with warm leggings.
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cinnamon




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 13 2014, 3:39 am
gp2.0 wrote:
We hold, according to the chazon ish I believe, that they don't have to be tznius but for chinuch reasons we dress girls in skirts from age 3 and up, as that's around the age they are aware they are different than boys. Its just a way to gradually start chinuch. They can still wear leggings underneath and show their elbows as well as their knees until age 6 which is age of chinuch for tznius.


This is what we do and is what's acceptable in my part of chareidi Israel.
Though age six usually turns into 'the summer between gan chova and kita alef' for convenience reasons.
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