Are you a good host?

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241

it does, but I cant figure out where I know it from. which Rashi is it, do you know?

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 3:46 pm Post subject: re: Are you a good host?

There are halachas concerning hachnachas orchim. If one is unable to offer a clean bed and fresh food, it appears to me from reviewing the laws, that it is preferable not to extend an invitation. It is wrong (unless it is a real emergency) to allow guests to come and make them feel uncomfortable.
By the same token, guests must be willing to abide by the house rules of the host. If the host opens his home for a one week period, the guest is obligated to make other arrangements after that time.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241

Hi Southernbubby! Nice to see you back on.

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: re: Are you a good host?

Moderator Joined: Dec 26 2005 Age: 33 Posts: 11430

The problem is that some people are unaware that their accomodations might not be so comfortable for most people. They may not mind sleeping in an open living room, but don't realize that their guests WOULD.

For instance, I understand that some people may not appreciate sleeping in my basement bedrooms, so if those are the only bedrooms available, I always tell potential guests that they are welcome to stay at my house, but this is where you'll be staying.

It's annoying when people don't realize that the space they're offering is sub-par (or just downright dirty or uncomfortable), and b/c they are clueless, they don't warn their guests and give them an option of finding other accomodations.

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 03 2006 Posts: 4473

Moderator Joined: Dec 26 2005 Age: 33 Posts: 11430

Yeah, our basement is definitely more private. It's completely finished, and there's a bathroom down there. Because I have an irrational fear of basements and don't like the dark, I always feel the need to warn people!

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 03 2006 Posts: 4473

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: re: Are you a good host?

Platinum Member Joined: Jan 01 2006 Posts: 48223

I think I'm a super-duper host, that's why I don't often do it much - to do it right takes koyach!

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 6:52 pm Post subject: re: Are you a good host?

Choc is that why you have mainly have men stay by you as opposed to women since they are less finicky I can see why now. Confused

Anyways I would like to think that I am a good hostess ,
alas though I do serve paper/plastic Sad

and alas I do tell my guests after serving them meals if they are still hungry they are welcome to raid my fridge. And alas though they have their own private washroom in our finished basement it has carpet that could be renewed desperatley.

Yes dear guest we don't have the fanciest meat to serve but not because we are out to make you dear guest uncomfortable but we cannot afford it. But yes in our house as I'm sure everywhere else even our youngest knows that the guest gets the best.

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 7:11 pm Post subject:

Why should guests get the best? I always give my kids the same that I give the guests - whether it be paper plates or real silverware - food or whatever. I find it offensive like we are not important enough. Also, if tzedaka starts at home, we should take care of our family first.
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Diamond Member Joined: Dec 07 2006 Posts: 3623

I'd also vote to stay in the finished basement with the private bathroom...as we do at my mil's...OTOH, my sil does not like the idea of sleeping in a basement, so they sleep upstairs. Which just goes to show that people have different standards and a guest should be dan his host l'kaf zechus (I.e. Instead of "Why is he making me sleep down here in the dungeon?!" if you can't see a/t good about sleeping in the basement, at least try thinking, "I guess my host thinks it's normal to sleep in a basement.")

I was given sleeping accommodations in a living room twice (by 2 different families in 2 different countries!) back in my single days - on both occasions I was uncomfortable, but realized it was due to lack of space. Perhaps I would have appreciated advance notice and would then have made other arrangements, but I did not hold it against my hosts! Another time, during shana rishona, my husband and I were given a private room, containing...a bunk bed! We thought those were mighty strange accommodations for a married couple, but while we laughed about it during and afterwards, no complaints.

I cannot imagine putting up a married couple in such un-private accommodations!!! That is simply a lack of tznius!!! There. Even I have red lines. Am I being hypocritical now?

[Sorry for the rambling - that's one of the dangers of Imamother allowing members to login after midnight in their locations!]

Gold Member Joined: Apr 02 2006 Posts: 1653

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 8:37 pm Post subject: re: Are you a good host?

It looks like the OP is complaining about friends who invite her and her husband but do not clean the house, change the sheets, cook, or try to educate the children to play quietly when guests visit. She will gladly pass up the invitation if it means sharing the bathtub with the baby's rubber ducky. She does not sound like the type of person who is desperate for a place to stay and therefore should be grateful for the dirty diapers on the floor. She is only trying to point out that an invitation conveys the desire of the host to go a bit out of his way to please the guest. At the same time the guest should try not be a bother. He or she should try to clean up after themselves and avoid blocking the driveway, smoking indoors, or bringing chometz into the upstairs bedrooms.
There is a type of chinuch which we give to children (who are old enough to understand) to respect the mitzvah of hachnachas orchim and to serve the guests first. If they are old enough, they can be asked not to interrupt the adults. At the same time, when the children need the parents attention, the guests need to step aside.

Gold Member Joined: Apr 02 2006 Posts: 1653

SB, with all due respect, but I and many other posters here would have to disagree. She says she is saving money by not going to a hotel but expects a whole lot!!!
This isnt about the Chinuch of the children, its about OP's Chinuch. If you want hotel service because you want to save money, but go to a house with children, that is what you get!! Go to a hotel otherwise.
Her tone is also disgusting. Later on she goes on to insult 'balabustas', calling them 'shleppers' etc.
Im glad you are so understanding, but OP needs a reality check and a hotel check in!

Diamond Member Joined: Dec 04 2006 Posts: 2694

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 9:11 pm Post subject: re: Are you a good host?

Yosama, she is basically asking for clean sheets and fresh food and said she would rather pass up homes with no private bath. While I agree with you about her tone and I myself usually rent when I go out of town, most of us would not invite guests to sleep on dirty sheets or tell them to rummage through old leftovers. If her hosts are tired of having her maybe there are better ways to convey that besides letting her sleep on dirty sheets and leaving diapers on the floor. At the same time, she could be taking advantage of people. She states that she and her husband stay overnight or for a weekend which does not sound excessive but how often does this happen? If it is frequent, she needs to offer them something.
I don't think that a home with children means that guests need to sleep on dirty sheets. Even with children in the house, is not impossible to put sheets in the washing machine and make the bed. She is not asking for haute quisine, just fresh hot food. It could be hot macaroni.
Dirty diapers on the floor could be a health hazard for everyone. Soiled diapers should be put into a bag and then into the garbage. Open waste attracts flies and they land on food. Even for the safety of the children, diapers should be carefully disposed of.

Posted: Tue, Feb 06 2007, 9:12 pm Post subject: re: Are you a good host?

ORIGINAL AMOTHER HERE:

I wrote my original post after a particular harrowing weekend by a friend who invited my husband and I for the weekend. To give you all a better picture, let�s pretend that I am a speaker by profession and charge $1000 a speech plus tickets. Let�s also pretend that I am the best speaker available today. (I am not a speaker.)

In a perfect world, every Jewish organization would have the budget to pay for a hotel room, but generally, they don't and therefore as a fellow Jew I try to cut costs and usually concede to be hosted in someone's home. I also very often have to go down on my price. Keep in mind that there is a reason, professional speakers, singers, and entertainers in the secular world charge the huge sums that they do. They are the best at what they do and worked HARD to get there. In the frum world, however, there is almost no appreciation for the work, and only a �let�s bargain them down so we can get the most for the least� attitude. I have been traveling for 10 years and have stayed at plenty of hotels, but usually I am �hosted� and what I wrote was based on my experiences. My husband and I have also been invited to friends for Shabbosim for insist we come stay by them. Here are some �experiences� we�ve had.

1. We once traveled 6 hours by car and arrived by our hosts exhausted and starving for a hot meal. There was not much food in the house to begin with and so she microwaved Shabbos leftovers (on a Tuesday!) and gave us soggy schnitzel, and dried out potato kugel on flimsy paper plates. We drove back later that night and I had to take food from the program where I spoke for the ride back. She never asked if we needed food for the way back. I guess I should have brought vacuum packed chicken for our dinner.

2. We once came to friends for Shabbos, and they showed us into our �room�, where there 2 year old daughter was sitting naked on her bed, before a bath, toys strewn everywhere. Our host was amused but we weren�t when we realized we were sleeping on those same sheets that night. She didn�t even pull out the bottom bed, but just said, �it�s a high riser�. Then she brought a blanket for my husband from her husband�s bed. Her house was a mess the whole Shabbos and the bathroom wreaked like urine. I could not believe she has insisted we come for a Shabbos. I guess we should have brought our own linen and mr. clean wipes.

3. One weekend by friends, we stayed in the basement of their home. They forgot to put the heat on before Shabbos and when the temperatures dipped to 30 degrees that night, we shivered the night away and I woke up with a cold. When I told my host, she laughed and said �well your husband has Russian blood, I�m sure he can handle it�. No apology even though we hadn�t slept all night. That particular host also had no hot water Shabbos morning. She forgot that too and my husband is a mess without coffee. I guess we should have brought a portable heater and samovar.

4. Once I was given a room to share with a baby. My host told me �oh he�s a deep sleeper�. The baby cried throughout the night and the parents didn�t hear a thing until early morning. I guess I should have brought earplugs.

5. Once, after a redeye flight, we arrived only to discover our hotel room was being used as a �Shaitel room� for the women attending the program. We spent the afternoon sleeping in the hotel lobby. I guess we should have paid $300 for a room.

I could go on and on, as I have so many stories but I realize most of you can�t relate because you�ve either never experienced any of this, or have mediocre standards of hospitality that are not hard to beat. I grew up in a home where we took pride of our surroundings and always went way beyond the letter of the law to provide a beautiful atmosphere for our guests. The children knew it was disrespectful to scream in front of the guests, my mother prepared fresh food and served a lovely meal no matter how many meals our guests stayed for, fresh linen was provided and changed if necessary, and a clean, supplied bathroom available. We knew that in a balabatishe home, that was how things were done. We were raised NOT to be shleppers, and to know that a frum woman takes pride in her home and that the state of the house is a reflection on the mother. I am not expecting sick women, or overworked women, or financially challenged women to give more than they can manage, but from your average, normal, frum women, I DO have expectations. ESPECIALLY, when you insist I stay in your house. You�re offering me a treat. Come for Shabbos, we�ll have a good time together. If you�re offering me to be uncomfortable so that YOU can have a good time, well then Id rather stay home.

You want to argue with me that I should bring my own toiletries, linen, food and earplugs? You�re right, I should. But it�s disappointing that I have to shlep it all because women are just too lazy to make an effort. I appreciate all the hosts that take the time to do their best at providing a nice clean bed, and fresh food and I don�t expect you to lock your children up, but a small �excuse me children, is that the way we behave in front of guests?� would be nice. There ARE dos and do nots when it comes to hosting, and lowering the bar because you can get away with it is not FAIR to your guests. Your guests SHOULD get the best, (as should everyone in your house.) But just like you don�t wear your old shmate robe out in public, you don�t treat feed your guests out of Tupperware, even though your husband doesn�t mind eating straight from the container. It�s just not the same.

Maybe when you have a bunch of kids, you just forget what its like for people who don�t have children and still relish a good nights sleep, and a hot meal. You get respect for being a professional mom, I deserve respect for being a professional at whatever I do. Hosting me well, is showing respect. Hosting me poorly, is showing blatent disprespect. Just because you can go without, doesn�t mean we have to. I don�t have to leave your home hungry, with a cold and headache, dying for a clean shower, just because that is what you are used to. I understand you think its all great, but if you are OFFERING to host, then host like a mentch. Don�t just expect us to adjust to the questionable standards in your home. Make an effort and as a guest, I will certainly show you that I appreciate it.