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| merelyme |
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 Posted: Tue, Aug 14 2012, 8:16 am Post subject: Re: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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| 5*Mom wrote: | | merelyme wrote: | What is the cost of car insurance for him? Is it a sum he can earn over the summer, with a little bit left over?
Do his peers pay for their own car insurance, or in their circles is it a given that parents cover this expense (along with room, board, clothing and tuition)? |
I don't know, it wasn't my example. But if it wasn't feasible then there's even less of a logical connection between insurance and getting a job, and this should not be involved in the job discussion at all. Clearly it should be an extra expense that a summer job could feasibly cover, and that kids his age (not necessarily all kids his age, but some) in his social circle pay for on their own.
We start this at around 12 with extras like pizza and ice cream with friends, etc. when our kids are old enough to babysit or otherwise earn enough pocket money to cover these extras, and move on to larger expenses as their earning capacity grows, as do the size and cost of their interests  . |
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| Tamiri |
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| Posted: Tue, Aug 14 2012, 9:47 am Post subject: Re: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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| 5*Mom wrote: |
Personally, I wouldn't have set it up quite that way b/c to me that undermines the long-term goals of having a child get a job. In such a situation, there are short-term goals and long-term goals. Short term: Keeping him occupied productively; having his own pocket money. Long-term: For him to learn that in life we need to pay for the goods and services we consume; Experiencing the satisfaction and value of paying one's own way=independence.
By coercing him into getting a job but continuing to pay for the extras that are really not his by rights (optional trips, car insurance, etc.) it seems to me you've focused on the short-term goals at the expense of the long-term goals. He has not learned that he has to pay for his goods/services, nor has he experienced independence b/c you are still paying for everything. There is no connection between his getting a job and these long-term goals. I'd consider this a lost opportunity and one that you will likely find yourself having to repeat. | So here we have how it depends on the child. This is a boy who gets himself up and out of the house by 6 am to catch a bus (2 busses, actually plus a 15 minute walk) that will have him in school minyan by 7:30. He's been doing this since 8th grade. Public transportation, as private busing is 7000 nis/year. He stopped eating the school food (5000+ nis/year) and takes from home. He does all his work, studies and is NEVER a problem in school. He is the most motivated of our children, besides the job thing. He's had one job that I can remember, selling Sukkot stuff for his Rabbi last year. And he wasn't inclined to get another one for the summer. Now he has some spending money but we will still cover what we think he "deserves" until he goes to the army. It's not much, but as long as we can do it, we do it. He *was* under the impression that he *deserves* car insurance, which would be an additional 5000 nis or so, give or take some shekels, over what we already pay (which includes his over-24 yo brother but not his 22 yo brother) because EVERYONE'S parents pay for them. Oh well. It's hard to earn 5000 nis and it's not a G-d given right. I also think it's good for him to have a source to pay a co-pay if G-d forbid he has an accident, cause we sure as heck aren't covering it!!!!
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| 5*Mom |
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| Posted: Tue, Aug 14 2012, 10:17 am Post subject: Re: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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| Tamiri wrote: | | 5*Mom wrote: |
Personally, I wouldn't have set it up quite that way b/c to me that undermines the long-term goals of having a child get a job. In such a situation, there are short-term goals and long-term goals. Short term: Keeping him occupied productively; having his own pocket money. Long-term: For him to learn that in life we need to pay for the goods and services we consume; Experiencing the satisfaction and value of paying one's own way=independence.
By coercing him into getting a job but continuing to pay for the extras that are really not his by rights (optional trips, car insurance, etc.) it seems to me you've focused on the short-term goals at the expense of the long-term goals. He has not learned that he has to pay for his goods/services, nor has he experienced independence b/c you are still paying for everything. There is no connection between his getting a job and these long-term goals. I'd consider this a lost opportunity and one that you will likely find yourself having to repeat. | So here we have how it depends on the child. This is a boy who gets himself up and out of the house by 6 am to catch a bus (2 busses, actually plus a 15 minute walk) that will have him in school minyan by 7:30. He's been doing this since 8th grade. Public transportation, as private busing is 7000 nis/year. He stopped eating the school food (5000+ nis/year) and takes from home. He does all his work, studies and is NEVER a problem in school. He is the most motivated of our children, besides the job thing. He's had one job that I can remember, selling Sukkot stuff for his Rabbi last year. And he wasn't inclined to get another one for the summer. Now he has some spending money but we will still cover what we think he "deserves" until he goes to the army. It's not much, but as long as we can do it, we do it. He *was* under the impression that he *deserves* car insurance, which would be an additional 5000 nis or so, give or take some shekels, over what we already pay (which includes his over-24 yo brother but not his 22 yo brother) because EVERYONE'S parents pay for them. Oh well. It's hard to earn 5000 nis and it's not a G-d given right. I also think it's good for him to have a source to pay a co-pay if G-d forbid he has an accident, cause we sure as heck aren't covering it!!!! |
ITA.
BTW, he sounds like a GREAT kid. Have lots of nachas!
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| Tamiri |
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| Posted: Tue, Aug 14 2012, 10:22 am Post subject: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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Thank you, BH we do. And that's part of the problem... a kid is *so good* you don't expect what you do of others.... until it's too late. His older brothers complained "how come he gets everything and we had to contribute" and... they were right!
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| curlyhead |
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| Posted: Tue, Aug 14 2012, 9:19 pm Post subject: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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My theory is you should not force a kid to do anything. If you force a kid it could become resentment and they will just do it because you are around not because they want to.
I am very proud of myself for having a good parenting moment today in a situation which could have become force or a war.
My 9yo son wanted to take spray paint to school for a class project. He told his friends he is bringing it. We went to the shop and bought it. I did not realize that you have to be over 18 to buy it as they did not let my son buy it alone. I got it. Then I found out that it could be dangerous and I was worried about the potential mess it could make. At first I told my son he can not bring it. He was upset and put it in his bag any ways. I told my son he should ask his teacher if he is allowed and if so he could bring it the next day. I explained my concerns to my son - about the danger and about how it is hard to clean if it gets on anything and if anything goes wrong he could get in major trouble in school. I suggested that he ask his teacher and if he is allowed he could bring it in the next day. I didn't tell him he cant bring it, just my concerns.
After about 15 minutes he tells me take it out of his bag. First he will get permission and if the teacher lets he can bring it the next day.
I could of been firm and said "no , you are not allowed to bring it". It would of just caused him to be angry and have resentment. This way we both ended up with a win -win situation and it was done calmly.
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| 5*Mom |
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| Posted: Wed, Aug 15 2012, 1:10 am Post subject: Re: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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| curlyhead wrote: | My 9yo son wanted to take spray paint to school for a class project. He told his friends he is bringing it. We went to the shop and bought it. I did not realize that you have to be over 18 to buy it as they did not let my son buy it alone. I got it. Then I found out that it could be dangerous and I was worried about the potential mess it could make. At first I told my son he can not bring it. He was upset and put it in his bag any ways. I told my son he should ask his teacher if he is allowed and if so he could bring it the next day. I explained my concerns to my son - about the danger and about how it is hard to clean if it gets on anything and if anything goes wrong he could get in major trouble in school. I suggested that he ask his teacher and if he is allowed he could bring it in the next day. I didn't tell him he cant bring it, just my concerns.
After about 15 minutes he tells me take it out of his bag. First he will get permission and if the teacher lets he can bring it the next day. |
ETA: This is hard to do as a parent b/c it requires having faith in the child's ability to think through the potential consequences on his own and make a good decision, as well as accepting and allowing for the possibility that the child will make a poor choice and giving him the space to do so. Nice!
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| amother |
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| Posted: Wed, Aug 15 2012, 1:14 am Post subject: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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| my parents used the "I prefer not" line. oooooh did I hate that! (b/c then I wouldn't do it, but they didn't even say I couldn't & if I tried to go ahead & do it anyway, I'd feel so guilty....)
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| curlyhead |
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| Posted: Wed, Aug 15 2012, 9:50 pm Post subject: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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| Check out the 'Love and Logic' series of books. Hard to implement but it works.
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| 5*Mom |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 16 2012, 2:51 am Post subject: Re: re: Do you force your kids to do things? |
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| curlyhead wrote: | | Check out the 'Love and Logic' series of books. Hard to implement but it works. |
Again, that would depend on what your goal is.
I checked this program out online a few years ago and while some parts of it sat well with me, I found other parts quite disturbing. Don't remember the details now, but I'm not a fan.
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