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| justforfun87 |
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Senior Member


Joined: Jul 14 2011 Posts: 190
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 4:42 pm Post subject: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets sold |
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012.....ng-glitch/
Can they do that? I was about to book a flight to join my husband who got the deal as well. Does not seem right.
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| Happy18 |
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Diamond Member


Joined: Sep 17 2009 Posts: 3967
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:45 pm Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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| I think it would be a PR nightmare if they dont honor the tickets.
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| Liba |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Aug 09 2004 Posts: 8431 Location: Israel
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:47 pm Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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I am sure they are consulting their lawyers. As the article read though, the whole thing is a real chillum Hashem. _________________ Liba, mommy to Zlata Tova 5/6/98, Tziporah Faiga 1/12/01, Esther Rivka 7/13/04 and Avraham Chaim 7/2/2006
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| ally |
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Diamond Member


Joined: Feb 14 2007 Posts: 2888
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:48 pm Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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I don't get why they can't just sue the third party.
Or maybe that's what they're waiting to see.
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| sky |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Mar 24 2008 Posts: 6528
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 6:52 pm Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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| Based on the numbers it will be a $6,000,000 loss. Can El Al even absorb such a loss. If they do know it will have to raise ticket prices for others down the line - won't it?
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| Kaybee |
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Executive Member


Joined: Aug 30 2009 Posts: 292
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| Liba wrote: | | I am sure they are consulting their lawyers. As the article read though, the whole thing is a real chillum Hashem. |
Why is this a chilul hashem? Noone stole anything..??
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| Happy18 |
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Diamond Member


Joined: Sep 17 2009 Posts: 3967
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| Kaybee wrote: | | Liba wrote: | | I am sure they are consulting their lawyers. As the article read though, the whole thing is a real chillum Hashem. |
Why is this a chilul hashem? Noone stole anything..?? |
The comments under the story and the one in the post are horrific. They basically say that since jewish people are cheap they bought the tickets even though they knew it was wrong. Some of the comments were even worse.
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| Sherri |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Jun 30 2009 Posts: 8230
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 8:21 pm Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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From what I understand there was an incident where first class tickets from Hong Kong to NY were sold accidentally for $43 instead of the usual $10k. Did people refrain from buying those? Apparently not. Why is this any different? (I am not commenting on whether/not people should have taken advantage, but I don't see why this is something only Jews would have done. )
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| Happy18 |
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Diamond Member


Joined: Sep 17 2009 Posts: 3967
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 8:24 pm Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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| Its not, but that may be why people think the entire thing is a chillul hashem
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| MaBelleVie |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7625
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| Sherri wrote: | From what I understand there was an incident where first class tickets from Hong Kong to NY were sold accidentally for $43 instead of the usual $10k. Did people refrain from buying those? Apparently not. Why is this any different? (I am not commenting on whether/not people should have taken advantage, but I don't see why this is something only Jews would have done. ) |
I think what looks bad is the fact that ppl spread the word so fast, and they were tripping over themselves to get the tickets. Over 5000 sold? That's insane. When Jews do it 5000 times, ppl talk, right or wrong.
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| Bliss |
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Gold Member


Joined: Dec 21 2008 Age: 27 Posts: 1519
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 10:08 pm Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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| I told my husband they might as well close their business for these few months the tickets were sold if they legally must honor it...
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| Sherri |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Jun 30 2009 Posts: 8230
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| MaBelleVie wrote: | | Sherri wrote: | From what I understand there was an incident where first class tickets from Hong Kong to NY were sold accidentally for $43 instead of the usual $10k. Did people refrain from buying those? Apparently not. Why is this any different? (I am not commenting on whether/not people should have taken advantage, but I don't see why this is something only Jews would have done. ) |
I think what looks bad is the fact that ppl spread the word so fast, and they were tripping over themselves to get the tickets. Over 5000 sold? That's insane. When Jews do it 5000 times, ppl talk, right or wrong. | We are a tight-knit community. I imagine there are other communities where something similar would have happened. I am not embarrassed by the story (I think ).
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| gp2.0 |
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Diamond Member


Joined: Jan 11 2010 Age: 25 Posts: 3613 Location: Nerdfighteria Island
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 12:10 am Post subject: Re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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| justforfun87 wrote: | http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/08/el-al-airline-considers-whether-it-will-honor-tickets-sold-during-glitch/
Can they do that? I was about to book a flight to join my husband who got the deal as well. Does not seem right. |
And what does seem right? For everyone to fly without paying for fuel? How about if they sat everyone on the plane (you did pay for the seat after all) but left the fuel tank empty? Enjoy your flight...
The obvious solution here is just to offer refunds/credit to everyone who bought a ticket. But I think there's some kind of law stopping them from canceling a paid-for ticket? I guess that's where the lawyers come into play. To search for a loophole that would allow them to cancel all the tickets. _________________ "Don't turn your back. Don't look around. And don't blink. Good luck." -The Doctor
'Age is foolish and forgetful when it underestimates youth.' -Dumbledore
Novel Edits: 650/54,700...I don't even want to figure out that percentage.
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| Hashemlovesme |
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Gold Member


Joined: Jul 14 2009 Posts: 2094
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 2:37 am Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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| according to halacha if a Jewish store owner makes a mistake (like giving you too much change) you must return it. El Al is owned by Jews, I wonder what halacha dictates here.....
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| bamamama |
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Gold Member


Joined: Aug 19 2011 Posts: 2029
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 2:50 am Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| Hashemlovesme wrote: | | according to halacha if a Jewish store owner makes a mistake (like giving you too much change) you must return it. El Al is owned by Jews, I wonder what halacha dictates here..... |
Ok. This is an interesting point.
Why, however, only if it is a Jewish shop owner? I would like to think people wouldn't steal from *any* store owner...
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| DrMom |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Dec 31 2006 Posts: 7383 Location: Israel
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 3:01 am Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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1. ElAl should honor the tix, but sue the contractor responsible for posting the wrong fares.
2. I don't get the chilul HaShem accusation. The tix were $400 -- that's not ridicuously low. I mean, you can get airfare specials between NY & London for ~$600. It's in the ballpark. It's not like they posted fares for $5, which would obviously be a mistake.
3. Just wondering: If the contractor posted fares that were too high, would they have refunded the difference for those who purchased tickets?
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| 5*Mom |
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Gold Member


Joined: Sep 12 2011 Posts: 1942
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 4:33 am Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| DrMom wrote: | 1. ElAl should honor the tix, but sue the contractor responsible for posting the wrong fares.
2. I don't get the chilul HaShem accusation. The tix were $400 -- that's not ridicuously low. I mean, you can get airfare specials between NY & London for ~$600. It's in the ballpark. It's not like they posted fares for $5, which would obviously be a mistake.
3. Just wondering: If the contractor posted fares that were too high, would they have refunded the difference for those who purchased tickets? |
I just came here to post 1 and 2. I also wonder about 3.
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| Hashemlovesme |
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Gold Member


Joined: Jul 14 2009 Posts: 2094
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 4:40 am Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| bamamama wrote: | | Hashemlovesme wrote: | | according to halacha if a Jewish store owner makes a mistake (like giving you too much change) you must return it. El Al is owned by Jews, I wonder what halacha dictates here..... |
Ok. This is an interesting point.
Why, however, only if it is a Jewish shop owner? I would like to think people wouldn't steal from *any* store owner...  |
come on ppl, the halacha states Jewish in re to a monetary mistake, loshon hara, hashovas aveida.....take it up w/ G-d. of course if it could make a kiddush or chillul Hashem it coul be dif but if you find a diaamond ring in a non Jewish area you are not obligated to find its owner, & obviously we have to train ourselves how to speak, but bashing the president or your non Jewish neighbor is not L"H, & if the clerk at Krogers gives you 2 cents extra you do not need to drive back to return it.
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| Liba |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Aug 09 2004 Posts: 8431 Location: Israel
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 4:42 am Post subject: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch tickets so |
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The mitzius is it is causing a hillul Hashem. Did you read the article? The airport fees and fuel are more than the tickets, so it isn't a conceivable price and with the publicity a huge hillul Hashem has been made, wether it "should" have or not.
We aren't non jews buying flights to Hong Kong. We are Jews taking advantage of a mistake made and a Jewish company to get to the Holy Land for prices so good that 5,000 tickets were sold in three hours.
It is causing a hillul Hashem wether you think it should or not.
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| ora_43 |
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Platinum Member


Joined: Feb 11 2008 Posts: 10886 Location: In an upside down world
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Posted: Thu, Aug 09 2012, 5:23 am Post subject: Re: re: El AL Airline considering not honoring glitch ticket |
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| bamamama wrote: | Why, however, only if it is a Jewish shop owner? I would like to think people wouldn't steal from *any* store owner...  |
Keeping money that a store owner gave accidentally isn't stealing. Not just in halacha, in secular law too. Nobody's going to get arrested for keeping extra change.
That said, returning what was given accidentally is at a minimum highly encouraged even if the seller is not Jewish. I think it's even mandatory if there's a chillul Hashem/kiddush Hashem involved.
Like Hashemlovesme said a lot of the things that go beyond what's generally considered common decency are only mandatory between Jews. I think people need to use their sechel... It makes sense to me that those are only mandatory between Jews because if they were mandatory regarding everyone, it could have negative repercussions in a hostile non-Jewish society. But in a non-hostile non-Jewish society, there's certainly room to apply the same laws to everyone.
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