Those who have gone OTD and came back, what brought you back

Then I think most painful questions should be outlawed irl. Such as: do I know you? what's your maiden name? where did you go to seminary?
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Rivka

These stories are anonymously written unless the poster wishes to identify herself. I'm enjoying them and am very interested in understanding what draws a person (back) to Yiddishkeit... anyone else have a story to share?
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Executive Member Joined: Jun 23 2010 Posts: 315

Executive Member Joined: Jun 23 2010 Posts: 315

and lets get back to the good stories and stop nit picking..

Posted: Fri, May 13 2011, 2:57 pm Post subject:

I think that reading these stories can help us when we have s/o in our lives that is OTD or heading that way. For instance, those who shared about being accepted teaches us that we should accept others unconditionally-as we may never know what kind of hashpa'a we have on them by our actions.

Keep 'em coming please!
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If you're gonna be blue, be bright blue!

Posted: Fri, May 13 2011, 4:42 pm Post subject:

This was such a nice thread and I am sorry to see it got shut down for no good reason. It certainly is not onas devarim to ask people to share. It is a nice thing to do, a chance to give people the platform to tell their story. No one has to tell their story and if the subject bothers them, then they don't have to read it. On the preface of loshen hara, you could end up shutting this whole site down and what would you accomplish? A lot of people with no place to go to share, connect, communicate, grow, love and learn from one another. It was not ok to attack the O. It was not nice and not fair, and you were wrong.

As a mother of an OTD child, I was actually getting a HUGE amount of chizuk reading about people who have been there and made the way back.
Most days I feel like I have a huge gaping wound in my stomach, bleeding with pain for my DD.
I have actually become physically sick over this - in my digestive tracts, unsurprisingly.

I am aware of the importance of maintaining a loving relationship despite all the pain, and I have gone to superhuman lengths to be a loving mother in the face of so much rebelliousness. Even though she acknowledges this and thanks me, and says she loves me, it is quite obvious that she is a tormented soul and I pray for her constantly from the depths of my being.

It gives me so much comfort to think that there is hope, and it provides a lot of encouragement to read what I can still do that might make a difference.

PLEASE do not end this thread. I would greatly appreciate reading of more people's experiences.

Moderator Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 4546 Location: Ohio

I think this is a good thread, but I agree with mummiedearest. We have to be very clear that this is NOT an okay question to ask directly of a BT or ger/giyoret. It can cause people extreme pain.
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mommy to 2 girls, 1 boy

"I would rather have my people laugh at my economies than weep for my extravagance."
--King Oscar of Sweden

What happened here, in spite of mummiedearest's pure intentions, is to me a good an example of what happens when a person has very good and kosher intentions but takes halocho far beyond its bounds.

The din is very specific. One can not make a remark to a person that reminds them about their sinful past.
That's all. The remark can be a question, it can be a statement, it can be a conjecture, and it can be a joke.

BUT. It has to be made to a specific person, not "thrown out into the air" as a general question. and it can't be anonymous, meaning it can't be to an anonymous person or from an anonymous person.

Unless one personally knows someone on this board and the question is directed specifically to them, there is absolutely no issur in what the OP did. Just the opposite. As all the former OTD mothers seem to have answered anonymously, of their own free will, and the OP's question was just a catalyst it is no different than a magazine ad that goes "if you were OTD and returned you want to share your story with us we will be happy to listen" for which there is no issur and such ads have appeared in publications such as "the Jewish Observer" by rabbonim working on the topic of kiruv.

To use this thread as a reminder of the halocho - one can not do this face to face with a specific person - is fine. But it is a general reminder, and not a reason to make the OP feel bad, to make any of the responders feel bad, or to say that this thread is no good. Just the opposite. It just definitely IS a feelgood thread and I see that as wonderful in these difficult days for everyone at the end of Elul.

There is being careful when in comes to halocho but there is also turning everything into an issur when it is not. No one here posted names, including names of Rabbonim, it was all done carefully, respectfully but also with a lot of important feeling and I know that I learned important things from it.
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"Olam Chessed Yiboneh", Tehilim 89.

Gold Member Joined: Nov 07 2005 Posts: 1105

mummiedearest, I sort of get your trepidation about how this discussion might cause someone to believe they can ask this question of someone IRL. But the whole point here is annonymity so that a conversation or question that we feel uncomfortable about (in this case, unable to ask) can ask. There are many,many discussions on imamother that an ignorant or misguided person could make errors in applying to their lives.

However, I do think it is responsible that you point out that someone should not ask this of someone IRL. It is similar to when ppl ask questions of gerim. There are gerim who have published their story. The people on this thread have voluntarilly shared and the asker, asked the question with the awareness this is a annonymous venue.

I found the thread helpful for understanding that non-judgmentalism and acceptance is what someone needs to be helped back. I am going to get a cd of 8th day too!

My dh. We started dating, I fell for him, but he was much more frum than I was. It was also important to him that we were on the same page religiously. So I gradually made the return.

I left the chasidish world because it seemed so superficial and so hypocritical to me. I hated that although I was smarter than a lot of the boys/men in my family, I was considered less of a person - like my thoughts on learning didn't count and I should just learn to make kugel. I felt insulted that all I'm supposed to be aware of is what S&W has on sale, which diapers are better, and whether I have a bugaboo.

I felt so resentful that the denier of my beige tights mattered so much, we were always taught that the hellfire and brimstone version of chumras, but I was never taught the beauty and logic behind halacha, or the difference between halacha and chumra.

To me, when I left it didn't matter more that I stopped wearing tights or that I ate pork and was mechallel shabbos - they were all equivalent. I figured that if I could eat McDonalds on the sly (behind closed doors) as long as I looked "chasidish" then it wouldn't matter - and everyone accepted me.

I got tired of the duplicity and just let it all go publicly.

I came back because in finding my identity - through extensive mistakes, hardships and pain, I learned to separate Hashem and my relationship with him, from people. I learned to deferentiate between Jews and Judaism.

I learned that when I had nobody else to help me dig out of a mess or 10, Hashem came through for me. Each time.

I learned that Hashem wasn't there with a stick to punish me everytime I did something wrong, but that he was there to love me and hold me tight and support me and for me to be close to him.

I learned that "gedolim" are just people and the only God in the world is Hashem. It is becasue I had to pull myself up by the bootstraps with just myself and Hashem's help, that I slowly came back.

However, I did find my place, after lots of searching and learning and I found that being 100% shomer Halacha from a MO perspective is the way for me.

My family still doesn't accept me 100% and I know a lot of acquaintences (they can't be called friends anymore) from the chasidish world look down on me with lots of disdain and contempt. That's OK. Because there is not one person in this world that I need to give a din vecheshbon to, regarding my bein adom lamokom.

I can honestly say that now, I only answer to Hashem. I don't care what people say or think about me, my path or my life. As long as I'm doing right, I sleep well.

I left the chasidish world because it seemed so superficial and so hypocritical to me. I hated that although I was smarter than a lot of the boys/men in my family, I was considered less of a person - like my thoughts on learning didn't count and I should just learn to make kugel. I felt insulted that all I'm supposed to be aware of is what S&W has on sale, which diapers are better, and whether I have a bugaboo.

I felt so resentful that the denier of my beige tights mattered so much, we were always taught that the hellfire and brimstone version of chumras, but I was never taught the beauty and logic behind halacha, or the difference between halacha and chumra.

To me, when I left it didn't matter more that I stopped wearing tights or that I ate pork and was mechallel shabbos - they were all equivalent. I figured that if I could eat McDonalds on the sly (behind closed doors) as long as I looked "chasidish" then it wouldn't matter - and everyone accepted me.

I got tired of the duplicity and just let it all go publicly.

I came back because in finding my identity - through extensive mistakes, hardships and pain, I learned to separate Hashem and my relationship with him, from people. I learned to deferentiate between Jews and Judaism.

I learned that when I had nobody else to help me dig out of a mess or 10, Hashem came through for me. Each time.

I learned that Hashem wasn't there with a stick to punish me everytime I did something wrong, but that he was there to love me and hold me tight and support me and for me to be close to him.

I learned that "gedolim" are just people and the only God in the world is Hashem. It is becasue I had to pull myself up by the bootstraps with just myself and Hashem's help, that I slowly came back.

However, I did find my place, after lots of searching and learning and I found that being 100% shomer Halacha from a MO perspective is the way for me.

My family still doesn't accept me 100% and I know a lot of acquaintences (they can't be called friends anymore) from the chasidish world look down on me with lots of disdain and contempt. That's OK. Because there is not one person in this world that I need to give a din vecheshbon to, regarding my bein adom lamokom.

I can honestly say that now, I only answer to Hashem. I don't care what people say or think about me, my path or my life. As long as I'm doing right, I sleep well.

I've never been OTD - but I so often had such thoughts...

The reason it never materialized into anything more than thoughts - is because of my grandparents. Every time these doubts creep up - I think of them.

They were completely secular actually, they grew up without any exposure to Judaism in USSR.
But they inherited from their family true Jewish values. They prided themselves on being Jews, they were such warm people, with so much love for every Jew in them, so much derech eretz, so much Yiras Shamaim.

The Judaism around me is often very far from the values they exemplified.

Every time I thought what's so beautiful about this religion, I am embarrassed to be part of this community - I would think of my grandparents and remind myself that what I see around me is not true Jewish values. These people are no reflection of Torah - I have mesorah from my grandparents, and I trust it more than I trust any BY teacher, or "Gadol Hador"

And being that I know what Jewish values are - I better stay on board, and be a good example.

Silver Member Joined: Jan 28 2010 Posts: 846

I know this thread is old, but since it came up again recently, I just wanted to add a few things.

On mummiedearests point. I agree we cant underestimate the hurt we can cause. I probably fit this category (although I never really thought of it that way, maybe even till this post!? I just think of it as a rebellious phase- and I remember thinking at points during it-that I KNEW it was a phase?! As wierd as that sounds.)

I remember YEARS after a school trip where I had gotten in a lot of trouble...a madricha from that trip bumped into me, and was suprised where I was at, she said something like, 'dont worry, we all make mistakes' ...

I cant tell you how upset that comment made me, I literally cried. I would have prefered she said nothing.

Saying that- I didnt actually have a problem with this thread. You cant ask in real life...(seriously dont ask!) but on an anon basis it can help other people and give people an insight.

What helped me was a few things:
Meeting baalai teshuva.
Moving geographically away from bad influences.
And working through issues like difficulties I had in kriah etc. I didnt even realize the contribution this played in my desicions- but when I started getting back into things, it became painfully obvious that the behaviour I displayed in school towards yiddishkiet had a direct link with my ability in kriah and general jewish knowledge.
I dont think this is uncommon- I would imagine even more so in boys.

Baruch Hashem I am so far from this period in my life that I rarely think of it anymore but in some ways I should keep it in mind for my own children and I am happy I can share this with others.