Apartment too cramped vent :(

Posted: Mon, Jul 09 2012, 12:30 am Post subject: Apartment too cramped vent :(

We live in 1 bedroom with just a very small living/dining area with a toddler and a baby on the way. I thought living in a small space would just be part of being unspoiled but it's really affecting our quality of life. My baby has so little space to play, no space to run around, and she only has to take out one or two toys for the whole house to look and feel like a mess where you can't get anywhere without tripping or slipping over something. She's always begging to go out, pregnant in the summer heat I don't have the energy to take her all the time, reverse problem in the winter, and going out all the time is not a real solution for living anyway.

I just had the conversation about this with DH for the nth time and we keep going around and around in circles and can't see any way out:
Housing in our neighborhood is expensive, a bigger apartment would eat up literally all our income or very close to it.
~DH could take on more work - he is currently in kollel but has a couple of budding side careers. However he has already been trying and it's really slow building up business, what he currently makes is mere drops in the bucket and we're not really sure how to expand faster because it's a small market with some competition.
~I could take on more work - somewhat more feasible, not so sure I could find it but it's worth a try. However I can't even think about that until after our baby is born, the pregnancy is really difficult and it's getting so close to when I'd have to take leave anyway that it makes little sense to start now. But consider that more work for me means less time with the kids/home, which I'm not so great at managing in the time I already have (I work part time now, but a big part of the time) Also not sure that I could find more work even if I were willing, my field is fairly saturated and I consider myself pretty lucky with what I have.
~We could move out of town where housing is cheaper - but then our income will shrink as well, because my profession pays less out of town (have not done the math exactly yet but I am sure of this) and DH's is less in demand. Also, I live close to my mother who babysits for us free for half the workday (currently that's my entire workday; if I take more work locally then I need to find someone else to cover the hours she's unavailable, but I suppose it might balance out) so if we moved away our childcare expenses would skyrocket from nothing to daycare for two kids. Overall doesn't seem to be worth it, after everything is factored in we don't end up any richer out of town as far as I can tell.
~We can go on with the status quo, which consists of me slowly going crazy trying to raise an active toddler in two cluttered rooms (and when I say "cluttered" I mean that our two beds and dressers quite fill the bedroom, and our dinette table+chairs and two bookshelves and the pack-n-play fill about 2/3 of the living room. I DON'T mean that we actually have clutter) while praying that a miracle will happen and some crazy metzia of an apartment comes up locally by the time our next kid shows up in a couple of months (such things have been known to happen, but rarely - some tzadik inherits an apartment from an elderly relative who lived here and decides that because he's not desperate for the money right now he'll let a kollel couple rent it cheap and hold off on selling it... things like that. But as much as I consider myself a person of faith, that happens rarely enough that I can't really be comfortable relying on a miracle even though I still vaguely hope for one)

This conversation always hits a dead end around there. Like now, it's midnight, that's bedtime, we don't have any new solutions, none of the old solutions sound any better, let's sleep on it AGAIN as if some new insight will hit overnight.

I feel so stuck!!! At first my small apartment was cozy and all, but it just seems to shrink by the day, maybe because the baby is growing. And I can't even imagine bringing another baby home here! I guess for a couple of months s/he'll live in a bassinet next to my bed and not really need much space to play but then what?! We already have the ridiculous situation of a baby sleeping in a pack-n-play in the living/dining room, and there ain't room for another any way you squish it. And those babies are going to be in some serious competition for their floor space. It already breaks my heart to see my baby knock hopefully at the door hoping someone will take her out; all too soon winter will be here and with cold weather and two babies it will just be harder. I don't want to think about it.

OK, that was just a vent because I honestly don't think there's going to be any creative solution out there for us. But I could use some sympathy, chizuk, and tips from others who are squished.

Diamond Member Joined: Sep 16 2007 Posts: 4185

it's tough to be in a cramped apt, but rest assured that even babies with lots of room to play at home still knock on that door hopefully - outdoors always is a bigger attraction.

one thing is for sure - your own attitudes will be sensed and adopted by the children. If there really is no sensible solution, then maybe it's time for reciting the Serenity Prayer together each night?
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I could have written your post albeit with a few differences.

I have a baby under a year and another on the way, I have been out of work for over a year because my pregnancies are really hard and I cannot go back to work for the next while because of this pregnancies and because the cost of childcare does not leave any take home pay at this point. DH has a full time job with decent pay (officially) but we don't qualify for any programs and therefor struggle tremendously. Everyone else we know either gets help from someone or gets government assistance to manage. We live in a tiny 1 bedroom and the cost of the 2 bedrooms in this area are between 1600 and 1800 a month. We can't afford that- at all.
If we move, DH who has a very specific skill set and job now, has no job and we're still stuck.
It's not easy and we also wait for that metziya, but I have less bitachon than DH. I'm pretty frustrated.

Moderator Joined: Jun 05 2011 Posts: 3372

I don't have any advice, just want to send you ((hugs))).

I just want to add that my DS used to BEG to go outside all day long! He would start to hum a specific tune he made up (at the age of 14 months or so) every time he saw me put on my sheitel, because he knew that meant we were going out. And when I would take the garbage bag out of the kitchen trash can, he would RUN to the door, because he knew I'd be putting the bag right outside the front door (I'd bring it downstairs later), and he always tried to escape! And he had a nice-sized apartment to run around at that time, but he just loved the outdoors.

Is it possible that there might be some apartments 'off the beaten path' that would be cheaper? When we were stuck (we had to move out of our rented house), we bought a house that was on a street without any frum families so we could have a place to live the size we wanted that we could afford. It was a 15 minute walk to the closest shul, and the kids had no frum neighbors nearby, but over the years, it filled with frum people. (this was in Chestnut Ridge in Monsey, years ago).
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we're in cleveland so we're in a 3 bedroom house with a full attic and full basement and office, etc. We pay maybe half of what an apartment in new york is. Having said that, our kids still stand at the door and scream mercilessly to get out. Smile

it's the quality of the playtime and how mommy and kiddos spend their time together--- not how much room there is to throw toys around.

I'll bet by necessity you need to be extremely organized and there's definitely something to be said about that.

Diamond Member Joined: Jan 14 2011 Posts: 2726

as the other posters said, all toddlers try to escape from the house, no matter how large or small it is. there is nothing as exciting as going outside when everything in the world is new and waiting to be discovered.

if your mom is nearby and helps with babysitting and emotional support, that is priceless, and it pays to take that into consideration when deciding where to live. I like T&Ps advice about looking into housing just outside the frum area, its usually a lot cheaper. we did that in our current apartment, and within 3 years more than half my block is frum! on the other hand, it also pays to consider a long term plan for possibly moving out of town, because financially it is becoming more and more difficult to live in the big cities. you are right that once your new baby grows up a bit, having two babies in a small one bedroom is very difficult, so maybe start looking in your area for now, while planning career-wise to be able to move to a more affordable community in a few years.

wishing you a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby, and hatzlacha with the difficult housing situation.

I seriously could have written this post- scary. I also have a 14 month old toddler am due in a couple months iyh, and I actually just moved from a TINY one bedroom apt, alot like the one you are describing. At first, I also liked it, it was nice and cozy, but the minute my baby started crawling- boom it became a living nightmare- and im not kidding. I couldnt live. you take out 2 toys, and theres nowhere to walk, nowhere to move, your tripping over your feet- its impossible!! my baby too was frustrated, she had nowhere to crawl, nowhere to go- the kid would end up opening every drwer, dumping out clothes...it was a disaster!! And she slept in our room, not the living room (literally no room in there), so my dh and I had to whisper from 8:00pm and on, couldnt move around, amake noise. The kitchen was a joke, there was no room to even bake a cake. It was just frustrating, annoying, and there were times I would just cry! But we were paying very little, $820 a month (were in NY), and we were saving. Finally now, just last week, our lease was up and me moved to a 2 bedroom here-- the rent is double, but there is no choice. We contemplating moving just like you, but decided it wasnt worth it, bec we'd be paying less rent, but our income would lower. dh and I both work, we BH BH pay our bills- not much left over now that we moved, but I thank Hashem every minute, this morning I realized I was in a better mood, just cuz I had space!! My baby was not crying at my feet, or pulling out garbage bags or clothes or who knows what. She has a huge living room and we ordered her some nice toys to use. You know what else- she started walking!! BH! I truly believe that teeny aptmnt stopped her from progressing a bit, bec she could not move!!
Anyway, my point is I rly rly feel for you and you are not alone. Its like you said, there arent rly solutions if moving isnt an option, but my advice to u is get out as MUCH as you can. You mentioned your mother is nearby, so spend time there if its better. Thats what we did- we spent tonsssss of time by my in laws, practically every single shabbos. The thought of staying home for shabbos was scary. After work, I did errands, parks, whatever, anything just to get out! I know your not feeling great so its hard, and I rly understand. HUGS and GOOD LUCK!!!

OP here.

There is no area that is less expensive but still close enough to be worth commuting to my job, DH's kollel, and my mother who babysits. We live in a very BIG expensive area! We did the math when we first moved to this neighborhood from the closest less expensive one and realized that it was totally worth it, the difference in rent between this and the next less expensive place was more than consumed by the cost, time, and inconvenience of commuting.

Thanks to all those who are reassuring me that begging to go out is normal, but I really notice that when we're by my mother who lives in a bigger apartment she barely begs to go out at all, maybe once in a while but if I say "not now" she's ok. Even if we're staying there over a whole weekend. At home she literally howls at the door. She is a kid who loves to run and be active, in my mother's apartment she can even just run down the hallway between the bedrooms, in our apt you can't go 5 feet without hitting something.

I try to keep things interesting at home but I just feel so caged up. I really need to at least stop worrying about what will happen when the next baby arrives, but it's hard not to, there is literally no place to put a baby down without stepping on it. I quiet myself by hoping for that metzia but the worry keeps coming back...

It would be really nice to have the kind of story where the wealthy long-lost uncle wills you some nice real estate. But neither of our families have any money worth mentioning and if anyone did it would have to be split enough ways... Razz

Last amother, we actually do spend waaay too much time by my parents' house, I go over early so DD can air out there even before my mother gets home to watch her and then we linger when I pick her up, and we are over there practically every Shabbos. But that's actually what set off this whole vent in the first place - they went away last Shabbos and we crashed in their house alone, and I realized what a huge mechaya it was! We had our personal family time, AND space at the same time! I kind of realized before but not with such clarity that spending so much time with my mother was really affecting our personal space and shalom bayis. Half the time I'm not home when DH gets home because I'm always there, my parents have their nose in every inch of our life simply because most of our life is happening in their house, we never have time to ourselves without DD literally underfoot (as opposed to playing quietly on the other side of the room - what other side in our room?) Shabbos was awesome but it made me so sad to realize what we're missing out on by living this way. It made me realize more than ever how important it is to me to have a bigger home. We get space by invading my parents' but then we also lose our individuality. Plus it creates a really uncomfortable dynamic where I know I'm invading their privacy as well, therefore I try to minimize it but it is just way too hard to really break off. When I think of not going for Shabbos one week, I just get nightmares about being stuck inside with DD for that long (there is no place to go either, it's not like we have any neighbors with kids her age that I could just pop over for a change of scenery, it's home or 100 degrees in the park and knock out my pathetic pregnant self running after her)

You might find an apartment that while technically a one bedroom also has more space - maybe a yard, or more hallways, or whatever.

It's definitely under consideration if one becomes available, but still, with 2 kids already how long are we going to last in ANY 1-bedroom before having the same problem? Go through all the hassle and expense of moving and setting up a new place and then have to do it all over again? Realistically, how long can a couple of growing kids sleep in the living room? I guess if we get a place with a bigger living room we could screen off an area which would probably be worlds better than what we have now (one square room about 13 feet square which encompasses our dinette set, two sets of bookshelves, and the pack-n-play). But still, one of these days DD who is nearing 2 will outgrow the pack-n-play and the second child BE"H will outgrow the bassinet and the sleeping in our room (DD got annoying in there pretty fast which is why she's in the living room now) Can you practically have a bed, and a pack-n-play, AND a toddler who isn't confined in a crib living loose in your living room? It might just be our only choice but I am practically crying at the thought of going through hunting and moving and a rise in rent just to be back in a similar problem again.

HOW on earth did those families do it in old Yerushalayim? I remember visiting someone (old) in Meah Shearim when I was in seminary and she was telling us how her family of 10 all used to live in one room, and I am pretty sure that's one ROOM, not one bedroom with a separate living room, though I could be misremembering. In the shtetls, OK, maybe they spend the whole day outside but I am pretty sure Yerushalayim was always pretty cityish? No green hills and cool forests surely. Maybe we should move to a shtetl...

Gold Member Joined: Aug 24 2010 Posts: 1467

I don't know if this would work for you, but if you're trying to save space, perhaps it would work if you move your children into your bedroom and you and your husband sleep in the other room - in a hiriser that can close up during the day. That may be neater and take up less space. But again, I don't know your setup. But sometimes thinking out of the box can create more 'room'.

I guess you're a few years away from your toddler being safe on a top bunk but a few years from now they can be in a bunk bed which will take up less space than 2 cribs or 2 pack and plays or two beds.

I'm always astounded by people saying they'd make less by moving to an "out of town" community. what is everyone making in new york that makes all the traffic and no backyards and $1500 one bedroom apartments (we pay $1200 for a house with an attic, basement, and 3 bedrooms) worth it? Are people really making huge salaries out there? what are the averages for various fields? just curious. We in "out of town" ville say we could NEVER live so cramped with no yards and such high rents for such small places and you in New York are always saying you could never live far from family and you'd make a lot less money. I know lots of people here making really good salaries for what they do. As far as family, I haven't seen mine in 20 years and my in laws are great, but they live in North Carolina and we're never moving there.

I COULD be wrong but I think special ed teachers around here also make around $60 an hour.

But I digress. What's a metzia apartment?

how do you get everywhere by walking when it's blizzarding outside? how do you walk with 10 bags of groceries? The whole lifestyle amazes me--- some people really love it, and some just can't imagine.

Silver Member Joined: Jun 12 2011 Posts: 701

It is really tough to live without enough space. I remember a teacher of mine in seminary who lived in a two bedroom apartment with something like 10 kids once commenting "space is not a luxury". Obviously people manage when they have to, but having a reasonable amount of space is a significant issue -- not just a matter of being spoiled.

That being said, you do need to be realistic. Especially if your apartment is smaller than a typical one bedroom, it may be worth considering the suggestion to move to someplace only slightly larger if you realistically can't afford something much larger. A little bit can make a big difference. We moved out of our one bedroom and into a "jr. four" (1 1/2 bedrooms) when a full 2 bedroom was too expensive, and it was really worth it. That extra 1/2 room meant my kids weren't sleeping in the living room (it fit exactly a crib, toddler bed, and largish night table that I used as a dresser for them), which made a HUGE difference. The new apartment also had a bit more closet space (even though the 1/2 room did not have a closet), which also made a huge difference. It was worth it even though the kitchen was smaller. When you are dealing with very small spaces, these little details can change a lot.

Diamond Member Joined: Sep 16 2007 Posts: 4185

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 29 2006 Posts: 4772

I want to add another point to consider.

I don't know what area you live in and how the prices work there but I will tell you what happened with us.

I wanted to move a year ago but we're in a one bedroom and we didn't have our baby yet so there was no actual need. Fast forward a year, now we are desperate to move and the prices have jacked up so considerably that we are having trouble finding anything in a workable range.

If real estate and renting goes up year by year, it might be worth it to stretch and get something now then to hold off till you are really desperate (which you already are!).

It's not easy. My new thing is to throw out stuff. I need space, I don't have it, well then neither will all these "things".
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Executive Member Joined: May 25 2010 Posts: 325

I really hear you op!
I live in a small one bedroom with three little kids. It ain't fun Smile