Gluten free home, and shabbos guests (challah)

The question wasn't about why seraph isn't eating gluten. She thinks that it isn't good for her and that's her choice. My question was about her husband, about her kids because she has basically decided for them - were they including the baby exhibiting problems connected to gluten?

Also one is supposed to eat gluten before the bloodwork, of course. So that's what one does. It's really easy to just remove remove remove but then one ends up deficient in various things when not necessarily necessary...and again, to do it to yourself if one thing, but to your husband (is he gluten sensitive? Did he exhibit problems?) and kids if they haven't exhibited real problems... without basic testing...that's just strange.
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1. Pitas have basically no crumbs. Maybe have a pita only rule.

2. Put a dollop of each dip as an appetizer on a small plate with no central dishes. It can look pretty fancy -- like a pallete...
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Freidasima, usually when it comes to food issues, I find you're on "my side" but now I'm feeling attacked.

You know what they say- when you assume you make an @$$ out of you and me.
Why assume that I am being mean to my family with no reasons, taking everyone off gluten with no basis in fact? Just because I havent posted about it on imamother doesn't mean I don't have a very valid reason.

My husband is off gluten because he always had severe seasonal allergies to the extent that he couldn't function during allergy season. He read up about the causes of seasonal allergies, and often gluten is the culprit, as it causes the body to over produce hystamine in sensitive individuals. ( http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/pollen-is-not-the-problem/ ) He cut out gluten as an experiment and for the first time in his life, was able to function and didnt have debilitating allergies. Now that allergy season is over, he tried reintroducing gluten, but found it made him really, really exhausted, so he decided to stay off gluten.
I have been off gluten since pesach 2011 other than a few week break when I first got pregnant. I did take a celiac test, but only after I had been off gluten for a year, which made the test obviously negative, because you only have the antibodies in the blood that it tests for if you actually eat gluten, which I'm not. In order to actually take the test and get conclusive results, you have to have 4 servings of gluten a day minimum for 2 months straight, something I am not willing to do because I am completely non functional if I have gluten, miserable, sick, etc... The last times I got "glutened" by accident, I got sick with flu like symptoms for 24 hours afterwords. My doc agreed that its not a good idea for me to go back on gluten for the test, and we just assume that yes, I do have celiac.
I only stay as strictly away from gluten as I do because I feel awful otherwise, not because I stam feel like it.

My son has/had eczema, and he isn't strictly off gluten, even though he should be. when he eats gluten, it comes back, when he stays away, it goes away. And both my kids act cuckoo when they have gluten. Seriously becoming wild children.

And as for the baby, since both her parents are sensitive to gluten, I'm not going to try giving her gluten right away. when she's a little older, I will experiment, but not now. But she is VERY VERY sensitive to dairy though.

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 01 2009 Posts: 8303

Seraph, since you are in a warm climate, how about doing kiddush, challah and bentching outside and then come in for the rest of the meal?
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Gold Member Joined: Feb 13 2007 Posts: 1310

Keep the big serving bowls near you so you know they're okay. Put out small serving bowls near the guests, explaining why you want them kept separate. If they finish the stuff in their serving bowls, you can refill from yours (carefully). I do this all the time, it's not a big deal.

Or you could plate everything, although personally I don't like when people do this. It forces people to eat things they don't like.

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. We are a gluten free (except for challah for dh and the kids) family. I have celiac. We do the challah course with dips on small plates. I take dips first - they are not from the container but from small bowls. Then everyone else does what they want. I tell them not to contaminate the bowl or whatever other food is coming but the leftover dips are generally thrwon out as a precaution. Then gluten filled plates, small salad forks, and leftover challah are cleared when everyone is done eating and the gluten free meal resumes. Everything left on the table should be more or less gluten free other than some tablecloth crumbs which I'm not going to stress about.

Just to add: so basically serve yourselves seperately or before everyone else and explain why. You can divide up the food even into two portions, the amout for guests that you think might get contaminated and the amount for your family. But whatever they leave over needs to be thrown out then if you're worried about it.

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7944

FS, most intelligent, educated people can figure out when something they eat causes severe symptoms. A test in that case is really not necessary. I know that I have classic symptoms of lactose intolerance. Do I need to be tested before I decide to avoid dairy? Come on. Especially in the case of celiac testing, when someone very sensitive would be in constant pain for the time period they are on gluten, it is really chelm- like to insisting upon it.

Actually it is medically sound to check and not chelm like at all, simply because it may not be the gluten that is the problem in this case but as I wrote, the yeast, the malt, or a certain type of wheat flour and not another. There is a reason that we hold that "bread is the staff of life" meaning wheat. And it seems that things come in fads. The latest health fads are Vitamin D and gluten intolerance. I am old enough to remember when it was Vitamin C and lactose intolerance. At that time everyone was being pushed to take large doses of vitamin C to prevent anything from the common cold to yenner machla and today the whole medical establishment has bought into the vitamin D being the cure all for everything from the common cold to yenner machla.

And once upon a time it was that everyone over the age of two or three should not be having milk because no mammals other than humans after weaning have milk or milk products and all the gassiness, aches and pains, allergies, ecxema and irritability were caused by dairy.

Today the bogey man is gluten. And very often it isn't. It's a combination of things that were eaten WITH the bread that cause the problem, not the bread or flour or gluten on its own.

It's so common for people on health kicks to blame anything happening with their chidlren on gluten just as twenty and thirty years ago in the "prevention magazine circles" (Motek where are you when I need you for these arguments, you knew this sutff as well as I did!) it was dairy that is being blamed.

I'm a firm believer when it comes to kids of getting them TESTED. That's what these tests exist for. Seraph, with all due respect where did you get your medical degree from? Is that how you diagnosed your kids? Maybe it wouild be good to put them through the allergy tests to really see what they are allergic to? Could it be the smog or whatever it was from the quarry that you used to live near? Maybe it is something else and not gluten?

It's just too pat...and too trendy. And every health person (I do not say "health nut" but that's what I mean) jumps on that bandwagon these days...just like they jumped on the anti dairy one 25 years ago...and just like they jumped on the anti X one 40 years ago.... The only thing is, when you are old enough to have seen several cycles and seen them all disproved you take it with a grain of salt. If it is something simple like keeping your kids away from tomatoes, or chas vesholom something proven and even complicated like a peanut allergy (right Marion?) that's a different story. But here it seems as if you think that your kids are better off gluten free. OK but did you try dairy free? Sugar free of any kind and not just added sugars? Yeast free? For kids with allergies usually yeast and its byproducts should be the first thing to go...

Freidasima, please... just stop... Please. I didn't ask you whether or not my family should be gluten free, nor did I ask anyone else. I am not a doctor, nor do I have an MD, but I am following the advice of my doctors (Dr. Alexander Rotenmer AND Dr Daniel Roznak, just in case you feel the need to call up any of them and ask them for further details of the recommendation they gave me).

And no one has disproved the benefits of vitamin C or the prevalence of lactose intollerance, they've just discovered that vitamin D deficiency and gluten are OTHER problems. Cutting back on dairy and upping the vitamin C intake is still recommended.

And no, its not just yeast, because things made with plain wheat flour and water cause problems, things with fermented wheat like tamari sauce, noodles made with just wheat and water, barley, spelt, oats, all cause us problems. Clear cut problems.

And I can have yeasty gluten free products.

But what on earth does this have to do with the thread?

Because Seraph the thread is about problems that you have because you want to have a gluten free home and I was questioning the basic premise, whether in actualilty gluten was the problem for all five of you at home or only your personal problem. If it is YOUR problem that's very different than if it is actually the kids' issue and your husband's issue because then there is no problem with having challah once a week for everyone on shabbos except for you. And then, like anyone with a food issue having to do with health, what one usually does is not drive the entire family and guests batty but rather one cooks portions for oneself without X (or without A, B, C, D, E, F, G...I live with this daily) and everyone else gets to eat normal.

Meaning the problem is then not everyone's but just yours. Or in my case, mine. It's easy to convince onesself that it is "healthier for everyone" to end up eating like the housewife does if she is the one with the problem...and then everyone basically suffers EXCEPT the housewife.

I've seen this happen over and over which is why I asked about your husband and kids. Had you not brought up the problematics of a gluten free home with guests and the other issues I wouldn't have asked how you know that your husband and your kids should also be gluten free.

And BTW the business about EVERYONE should be off dairy or MOST people should be off dairy which was major basics to anyone health conscious in the 70s and 80s WAS totally disproved but was kept like torah lemoshe misinai then. Same goes for today with all the articles about gluten being the culprit in so many things. I'm not talking about people who eat gluten and blow up with gas and have shilshul etc. That is pretty obvious that it badly affects the digestive system. But when it is a rash or itching or irritability or joint pain or acting out etc...then it's different. And from what you had once written, that was the case with your kids. And now with your husband....seasonal allergies? Since when does that have to do with gluten. Try pollen. Try pollution. Try one of the seventy types of olive pollen that exist in EY...you just seem to be on an anti gluten bandwagon here...and all I suggested is that you have the kids tested before your limit their diets so drastically and turn your entire household upside down.

And yes, Seraph the benefits of the massive doses of vitamin C that were being reccomended in the 1980s were in many cases disproved. Also the premise that most people are underlying lactose intolerance.

friedasima, I didn't ask if you approve of our diet. gamarnu. we're following the recommendations of our doctor.

as for the gluten seasonal allergy connection, did you read the article I linked to? my husband, his whole life, had terrible allergies. so did his father in law. they tried everything, from
prescription allergy meds to steroids, shots, natural remedies, and nothing ever helped. his father went off gluten and for the first time in his life no more allergies, and my husband tried it, though he was skeptical, and batch baruch hashem no more allergies for him either. so its not just bubkes .

and gluten causing eczema is scientifically proven. google it or ask a dermatologist.

I'm not into fads, etc, but I had challa last night... and a migraine this morning... Sad

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I would serve a kazayis of pita as a separate course, no dips, which we do erev pesach. And even have the guests eat their pita in bags like lubavitchers do with matza on pesach. Tell them to treat everything as pesachdik and not make crumbs.
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In bags?? like how?