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| How bad is it to not fold underwear in drawer? |
| Not bad at all- I do that too |
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54% |
[ 94 ] |
| It's fine, but I do fold mine |
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36% |
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| I don't think that's acceptable |
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8% |
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| Total Votes : 171 |
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| shabbatiscoming |
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 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 3:16 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| kb wrote: | Shabbat, my mother also grew up in Washington Heights, and when we went to my grandmother for Shabbos, I sometimes got to sleep in the maid's room! (No maid. Just a cleaning lady. And yes, my grandmother ironed her sheets. I never saw her underwear, but I wouldn't put it past her.)
The maid's room was a small room off the kitchen - room for a bed and dresser and room to walk by. Basically a small room away from the other bedrooms, and in the area of the apartment most important to the maid - between the kitchen and dining room. | My mother's family did not even have a maid. I forgot if my mother said she slept there or my aunt, but it was still there, in an apartment building and everything 
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 4:03 am Post subject: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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Sa amother here. Didn't mean to derail conversation here. But no they r not slaves. They are legal employees with sick pay, paid vacations, bonuses, yearly raises etcc.
It is still very cheap but that's due to the huge unemployment issues here partially due to lack of education but also various other factors. Also due to the large number of Zimbabwean refugees who will work for even less than south Africans.
It's still much cheaper. All houses I have ever seen here come with "staff quarters" usually a small separate building with room(s) and a bathrooms.
Some are nice some are horrible depends, my mil's staff quarters are nicer than my houses, and have underfloor heating which is so so uncommon here, most peoples houses have no heating at all, mine included.
So it's not like you pay extra for the room.
My maid chose to live not by me, which to this day I don't understand but she would make the same salary, but have her room ( approximate saving of r650~$88) plus electric and water etcc. She would rather live in township in a room prob similar to what I offered her without running water share a toilet with 50-100 other people and it's so super dangerous. And of course we said her dh could move in. But she doesn't want to.
So I pay her
1. R2600 per month plus extra if she babysits at night. So usually about 2900 which is like $380 a month.
She works 7-5:30 mon- Friday never on Sunday sometimes Shabbos just in morning sometimes all day depends.
She gets average 8 weeks leave
And holiday bonus. I provide breakfast and lunch ( she writes me a shopping list and buy whatever she asks for)
So probably total of 3500 a month which is like $420 a month for approximately 65 hours a week so that's 260 hours per month so it's like $2 per hour. Shucks. Am I doing my mental calculations right?? Cuz Zimbabweans will work for r1800 per month which is way less and it's more than you would make being a cashier in shop or other mInimum wage jobs.
It's horrible and sad, and I do try and help her out. But 40% of my income goes directly to gov't and it so do upsetting to me how they keep voting in ANC party where they totally totally corrupt and misuse money.
I am practically ready to hire my maids niece as second maid because she is so desperate for job, by don't have money for second maid.
I do everything I can to help her family out especially helping her pay for her kids education, but one of her kids is 20 and still in 11th grade (failed multiple grades. And pass here is only between 30-50% depending on subject) so it's a huge huge problem which is not going away.
But no it's not slave labour I try and always treat her with respect and dignity, I always renew her contract every December and give her raise.
Sorry for the digression, carry on about the scintillating discussion about folding underwear.
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 4:37 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| amother wrote: | Sa amother here. Didn't mean to derail conversation here. But no they r not slaves. They are legal employees with sick pay, paid vacations, bonuses, yearly raises etcc.
It is still very cheap but that's due to the huge unemployment issues here partially due to lack of education but also various other factors. Also due to the large number of Zimbabwean refugees who will work for even less than south Africans.
It's still much cheaper. All houses I have ever seen here come with "staff quarters" usually a small separate building with room(s) and a bathrooms.
Some are nice some are horrible depends, my mil's staff quarters are nicer than my houses, and have underfloor heating which is so so uncommon here, most peoples houses have no heating at all, mine included.
So it's not like you pay extra for the room.
My maid chose to live not by me, which to this day I don't understand but she would make the same salary, but have her room ( approximate saving of r650~$88) plus electric and water etcc. She would rather live in township in a room prob similar to what I offered her without running water share a toilet with 50-100 other people and it's so super dangerous. And of course we said her dh could move in. But she doesn't want to.
So I pay her
1. R2600 per month plus extra if she babysits at night. So usually about 2900 which is like $380 a month.
She works 7-5:30 mon- Friday never on Sunday sometimes Shabbos just in morning sometimes all day depends.
She gets average 8 weeks leave
And holiday bonus. I provide breakfast and lunch ( she writes me a shopping list and buy whatever she asks for)
So probably total of 3500 a month which is like $420 a month for approximately 65 hours a week so that's 260 hours per month so it's like $2 per hour. Shucks. Am I doing my mental calculations right?? Cuz Zimbabweans will work for r1800 per month which is way less and it's more than you would make being a cashier in shop or other mInimum wage jobs.
It's horrible and sad, and I do try and help her out. But 40% of my income goes directly to gov't and it so do upsetting to me how they keep voting in ANC party where they totally totally corrupt and misuse money.
I am practically ready to hire my maids niece as second maid because she is so desperate for job, by don't have money for second maid.
I do everything I can to help her family out especially helping her pay for her kids education, but one of her kids is 20 and still in 11th grade (failed multiple grades. And pass here is only between 30-50% depending on subject) so it's a huge huge problem which is not going away.
But no it's not slave labour I try and always treat her with respect and dignity, I always renew her contract every December and give her raise.
Sorry for the digression, carry on about the scintillating discussion about folding underwear. |
When you earn $2 an hour and work 65 hour work weeks, you can tell me that it's not slave labour.
I can't believe its so difficult for you to understand that someone could want to live in their own home away from work.
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| shabbatiscoming |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 4:55 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| ally wrote: | | amother wrote: | Sa amother here. Didn't mean to derail conversation here. But no they r not slaves. They are legal employees with sick pay, paid vacations, bonuses, yearly raises etcc.
It is still very cheap but that's due to the huge unemployment issues here partially due to lack of education but also various other factors. Also due to the large number of Zimbabwean refugees who will work for even less than south Africans.
It's still much cheaper. All houses I have ever seen here come with "staff quarters" usually a small separate building with room(s) and a bathrooms.
Some are nice some are horrible depends, my mil's staff quarters are nicer than my houses, and have underfloor heating which is so so uncommon here, most peoples houses have no heating at all, mine included.
So it's not like you pay extra for the room.
My maid chose to live not by me, which to this day I don't understand but she would make the same salary, but have her room ( approximate saving of r650~$88) plus electric and water etcc. She would rather live in township in a room prob similar to what I offered her without running water share a toilet with 50-100 other people and it's so super dangerous. And of course we said her dh could move in. But she doesn't want to.
So I pay her
1. R2600 per month plus extra if she babysits at night. So usually about 2900 which is like $380 a month.
She works 7-5:30 mon- Friday never on Sunday sometimes Shabbos just in morning sometimes all day depends.
She gets average 8 weeks leave
And holiday bonus. I provide breakfast and lunch ( she writes me a shopping list and buy whatever she asks for)
So probably total of 3500 a month which is like $420 a month for approximately 65 hours a week so that's 260 hours per month so it's like $2 per hour. Shucks. Am I doing my mental calculations right?? Cuz Zimbabweans will work for r1800 per month which is way less and it's more than you would make being a cashier in shop or other mInimum wage jobs.
It's horrible and sad, and I do try and help her out. But 40% of my income goes directly to gov't and it so do upsetting to me how they keep voting in ANC party where they totally totally corrupt and misuse money.
I am practically ready to hire my maids niece as second maid because she is so desperate for job, by don't have money for second maid.
I do everything I can to help her family out especially helping her pay for her kids education, but one of her kids is 20 and still in 11th grade (failed multiple grades. And pass here is only between 30-50% depending on subject) so it's a huge huge problem which is not going away.
But no it's not slave labour I try and always treat her with respect and dignity, I always renew her contract every December and give her raise.
Sorry for the digression, carry on about the scintillating discussion about folding underwear. |
When you earn $2 an hour and work 65 hour work weeks, you can tell me that it's not slave labour.
I can't believe its so difficult for you to understand that someone could want to live in their own home away from work. | ally, I am going to agree with both you and the SA amother. Unless you live that life (as she does) or like myself who is married to a guy from SA and we have visited many times, you can not say that it is slave labor. First of all, I think it was a mistake for SA amother to convert the rands to dollars. Its not a fair comparison, at all. Life is different in south africa than to america. It just is. They have a whole population of people who are not educated (that is a whole other debate and conversation that is hard to stomach as well) but what would you rather? For some of these workers there is either a menial job of some sort or nothing. Would that be better? For them to be slumming it completely????? Look, before I ever went to south africa or married my husband, I felt the same way you did, but it is not as pashut as just to say that it is slave labor. It just is not that way.
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 5:05 am Post subject: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| amother from south africa, what would be the hourly wage there for a teacher or secretary? $2 an hour sounds very cheap but I think prices (and maybe salaries) in general are much lower there. Maybe this is not true anymore (this was 10 years ago) but I remember my friend told me she had a meal in a restaurant for 3 people for about $15 total. you can't do that in europe or Israel or the USA.
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 5:06 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | ally wrote: | | amother wrote: | Sa amother here. Didn't mean to derail conversation here. But no they r not slaves. They are legal employees with sick pay, paid vacations, bonuses, yearly raises etcc.
It is still very cheap but that's due to the huge unemployment issues here partially due to lack of education but also various other factors. Also due to the large number of Zimbabwean refugees who will work for even less than south Africans.
It's still much cheaper. All houses I have ever seen here come with "staff quarters" usually a small separate building with room(s) and a bathrooms.
Some are nice some are horrible depends, my mil's staff quarters are nicer than my houses, and have underfloor heating which is so so uncommon here, most peoples houses have no heating at all, mine included.
So it's not like you pay extra for the room.
My maid chose to live not by me, which to this day I don't understand but she would make the same salary, but have her room ( approximate saving of r650~$88) plus electric and water etcc. She would rather live in township in a room prob similar to what I offered her without running water share a toilet with 50-100 other people and it's so super dangerous. And of course we said her dh could move in. But she doesn't want to.
So I pay her
1. R2600 per month plus extra if she babysits at night. So usually about 2900 which is like $380 a month.
She works 7-5:30 mon- Friday never on Sunday sometimes Shabbos just in morning sometimes all day depends.
She gets average 8 weeks leave
And holiday bonus. I provide breakfast and lunch ( she writes me a shopping list and buy whatever she asks for)
So probably total of 3500 a month which is like $420 a month for approximately 65 hours a week so that's 260 hours per month so it's like $2 per hour. Shucks. Am I doing my mental calculations right?? Cuz Zimbabweans will work for r1800 per month which is way less and it's more than you would make being a cashier in shop or other mInimum wage jobs.
It's horrible and sad, and I do try and help her out. But 40% of my income goes directly to gov't and it so do upsetting to me how they keep voting in ANC party where they totally totally corrupt and misuse money.
I am practically ready to hire my maids niece as second maid because she is so desperate for job, by don't have money for second maid.
I do everything I can to help her family out especially helping her pay for her kids education, but one of her kids is 20 and still in 11th grade (failed multiple grades. And pass here is only between 30-50% depending on subject) so it's a huge huge problem which is not going away.
But no it's not slave labour I try and always treat her with respect and dignity, I always renew her contract every December and give her raise.
Sorry for the digression, carry on about the scintillating discussion about folding underwear. |
When you earn $2 an hour and work 65 hour work weeks, you can tell me that it's not slave labour.
I can't believe its so difficult for you to understand that someone could want to live in their own home away from work. | ally, I am going to agree with both you and the SA amother. Unless you live that life (as she does) or like myself who is married to a guy from SA and we have visited many times, you can not say that it is slave labor. First of all, I think it was a mistake for SA amother to convert the rands to dollars. Its not a fair comparison, at all. Life is different in south africa than to america. It just is. They have a whole population of people who are not educated (that is a whole other debate and conversation that is hard to stomach as well) but what would you rather? For some of these workers there is either a menial job of some sort or nothing. Would that be better? For them to be slumming it completely????? Look, before I ever went to south africa or married my husband, I felt the same way you did, but it is not as pashut as just to say that it is slave labor. It just is not that way. |
No. What would be better is a real minimum wage that didn't propogate this cycle and paternalistic attitude. "Oh look at me, I'm so nice. I pay for my maids kids to have an education".
Um, well the reason she needs you to help out with that is because she is working for you beyond full time for no money.
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 5:19 am Post subject: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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I assume living standards are different in SA. But you know something, I pay my babysitter here (In Israel, and yes she's young, but still) the equivalent of $3.04, based on the current exchange rate. I got paid way over $10 for babysitting sleeping kids (something my child never is when she takes care of him) and that was about 10 years ago!
You can't compare different lifestyles, cultures, or rates. Or rather, you can compare, but you can't understand them, and you certainly can't criticize what you don't know.
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 5:39 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| kb wrote: | I assume living standards are different in SA. But you know something, I pay my babysitter here (In Israel, and yes she's young, but still) the equivalent of $3.04, based on the current exchange rate. I got paid way over $10 for babysitting sleeping kids (something my child never is when she takes care of him) and that was about 10 years ago!
You can't compare different lifestyles, cultures, or rates. Or rather, you can compare, but you can't understand them, and you certainly can't criticize what you don't know. | Exactly this. You cant compare different countries, different rates. Just like kb, we have a babysitter every now and then and they are usually in their teens and they get between 15 - 20 shekels an hour. In dollars thats bubkus. But that is the going rate and so we try not to compare like with like or like with unlike really.
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 5:45 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| ally wrote: | | shabbatiscoming wrote: | | ally wrote: | | amother wrote: | Sa amother here. Didn't mean to derail conversation here. But no they r not slaves. They are legal employees with sick pay, paid vacations, bonuses, yearly raises etcc.
It is still very cheap but that's due to the huge unemployment issues here partially due to lack of education but also various other factors. Also due to the large number of Zimbabwean refugees who will work for even less than south Africans.
It's still much cheaper. All houses I have ever seen here come with "staff quarters" usually a small separate building with room(s) and a bathrooms.
Some are nice some are horrible depends, my mil's staff quarters are nicer than my houses, and have underfloor heating which is so so uncommon here, most peoples houses have no heating at all, mine included.
So it's not like you pay extra for the room.
My maid chose to live not by me, which to this day I don't understand but she would make the same salary, but have her room ( approximate saving of r650~$88) plus electric and water etcc. She would rather live in township in a room prob similar to what I offered her without running water share a toilet with 50-100 other people and it's so super dangerous. And of course we said her dh could move in. But she doesn't want to.
So I pay her
1. R2600 per month plus extra if she babysits at night. So usually about 2900 which is like $380 a month.
She works 7-5:30 mon- Friday never on Sunday sometimes Shabbos just in morning sometimes all day depends.
She gets average 8 weeks leave
And holiday bonus. I provide breakfast and lunch ( she writes me a shopping list and buy whatever she asks for)
So probably total of 3500 a month which is like $420 a month for approximately 65 hours a week so that's 260 hours per month so it's like $2 per hour. Shucks. Am I doing my mental calculations right?? Cuz Zimbabweans will work for r1800 per month which is way less and it's more than you would make being a cashier in shop or other mInimum wage jobs.
It's horrible and sad, and I do try and help her out. But 40% of my income goes directly to gov't and it so do upsetting to me how they keep voting in ANC party where they totally totally corrupt and misuse money.
I am practically ready to hire my maids niece as second maid because she is so desperate for job, by don't have money for second maid.
I do everything I can to help her family out especially helping her pay for her kids education, but one of her kids is 20 and still in 11th grade (failed multiple grades. And pass here is only between 30-50% depending on subject) so it's a huge huge problem which is not going away.
But no it's not slave labour I try and always treat her with respect and dignity, I always renew her contract every December and give her raise.
Sorry for the digression, carry on about the scintillating discussion about folding underwear. |
When you earn $2 an hour and work 65 hour work weeks, you can tell me that it's not slave labour.
I can't believe its so difficult for you to understand that someone could want to live in their own home away from work. | ally, I am going to agree with both you and the SA amother. Unless you live that life (as she does) or like myself who is married to a guy from SA and we have visited many times, you can not say that it is slave labor. First of all, I think it was a mistake for SA amother to convert the rands to dollars. Its not a fair comparison, at all. Life is different in south africa than to america. It just is. They have a whole population of people who are not educated (that is a whole other debate and conversation that is hard to stomach as well) but what would you rather? For some of these workers there is either a menial job of some sort or nothing. Would that be better? For them to be slumming it completely????? Look, before I ever went to south africa or married my husband, I felt the same way you did, but it is not as pashut as just to say that it is slave labor. It just is not that way. |
No. What would be better is a real minimum wage that didn't propogate this cycle and paternalistic attitude. "Oh look at me, I'm so nice. I pay for my maids kids to have an education".
Um, well the reason she needs you to help out with that is because she is working for you beyond full time for no money. | You have no idea what these maids get for a salary. How do you know if it is minimum wage or not? And if these people are already working for someone, then yes, it is nice that they can help out their workers somewhat. Why is that a negative thing?
The one worker by my in laws has no education. My FIL actually "rescued" him (long story, not going to get into it now) and asked him if he would like to work for my in laws family and get room and board. He said yes. He goes to see his family. He gets days off. He has a wonderful social life. He was not forced to take this job. I dont see what is wrong with this as opposed to someone working another minimum wage job flipping burgers?
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 8:21 am Post subject: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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I think that it is close to impossible to understand the lifestyle and mentality of people here in Africa. That being said I would like to raise 2 points and respond to this.
| Quote: |
When you earn $2 an hour and work 65 hour work weeks, you can tell me that it's not slave labour.
I can't believe its so difficult for you to understand that someone could want to live in their own home away from work. |
1. I calculated my maid's salary wrong. It's not 65 hours a week.
First of all, my maid get 1/2 hour tea break in the morning, 1 hour lunch break, and 1/2 hour tea break in afternoon, so she works 8 1/2 hours per day. She doesn't usually work full day on shabbos. In a month she will have 1-2 shabbosim where she doesn't work at all, one shabbos where she works approximately 6 hours, and one shabbos where she works 2-3 hours. so
To break it down it's really 8 1/2 per day x5=42 1/2 hours per week x4 =170 hours per month. Add an additional 12 hours for shabbos per month, so it 182 hours per month. Once a week she has a half a day so it's about 170 hours a month.
170 hours per month at R2600, equals approximately R14 per hour.
Minimum wage for a domestic worker in south Africa is 8.34, so I am paying 167% of minimum wage. To give you an idea of other jobs' minimum wage per hour. For:
farm worker r7.71
hospitality workers 10.70
taxi driver 11.08
etc...
Obviously, it's not ideal situation, but the problem is much bigger than me and my salaries that I pay my employee(s).
I pay much more money into the government. Like I said 40%, and I receive much less personal benefit than a citizen would in a first world country- I don't use police- pay for my own security in my neighborhood,I don't use schools-pay for private, don't use public health care- pay for private, my neighborhood, PRIVATELY pays to repave our roads they are so bad, we pay through the roof for electricity and water, asides for the fact that our bill is constantly wrong and we pay it anyway.
I wish that my tax money was going to education, healthcare, RVP housing, etc... but it's not. It's going into pathetic accounts and to enrich the lives of the politicians and their friends
For example, my president's wives receive benefits equaling almost $2 MILLION per YEAR- okay he has 3 or 4 wives but still, that's an obscene number: 15.5 million RAND for president spousal support office. That's not okay.
Yet everyone still votes for them, because must vote ANC, and it's so frustrating, because when there is this dogma that you must vote for one party because they are the liberation party, it's not really a democracy.
My point is, whatever, it's easy to say that it's slave labour, when you have never been here, experienced the mentality, understood some of the bigger issues here, haven't heard the INSANE INSANE political rhetoric, (just google Julius Malema to experience some of our real fine politicians).
I am the first person to say there are problems here, there are even worse problems in other parts of Africa. The biggest problem is the government. I support NGOs that make a difference, I volunteered at gov't hospitals when there was employee strike. I vote for politicians that will make a difference. I try and do things that make a real and substantial change.
2nd. Of course I understand that in theory, my maid wouldn't want to live where she worked.
But yes, I find it hard to understand that she wouldn't rather take that R700 a month that she spends on a one room shack in Alex, and invest that into her children's education, so they won't live like that.
In addition that means that she lives in my house, a place with
a. running water so she doesn't have to carry two 20litre bottles of water to her house for cooking every single day,
b.electricity
c. heating
d. hot water.
e. newly redone bathroom with shower and everything that she would only share with her her husband and my gardener as opposed to a block of people in Alex.
f. Most importantly, my house is SAFE, or at least substantially safer than where she lives now. I haven't had a contact crime in my neighborhood for 2 months, and she can't walk outside her door at night where she lives, because she could be raped, killed etc.. for example: her niece was strangled with a telephone wire the other week.
You couldn't pay me to live where she lives, she wasn't able to go home for the weekend, because if she left her car there, it would get stolen.
So, yes, my world view is so different from hers that I find it hard to understand, but don't try and tell me that YOU understand her, you don't have a clue to what her world is like, because have you ever BEEN to South Africa? Do you also understand why she refuses to take an HIV test, because AIDS is a white person disease and you don't die from AIDs- her words not mine.
Please explain to me the post Apartheid black African's world view, I am sure that most first world white liberal people, such as yourself, understand them entirely, unlike us colonialist privileged, racist, slave drivers white South African, such as myself (which I am not being as I am American, but whatever).
My original point in this whole conversation was to point out, that due to numerous factors too broad and complex to properly outline here, there are countries where there is an abundance of domestic help. In those countries, it is the norm for all clothing to be ironed, including underwear.
Feel free to discuss these numerous factors ad nauseum in another thread, and leave the poor OP to stress about her underwear drawers, instead of the socioeconomic difficulties of third world countries.
Oh, and enjoy the moral superiority that seems to come with not having household help, and don't forget Mandela Day- July 18th, and give 67 minutes to charity or helping out your local community.
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| m in Israel |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 8:38 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| ally wrote: |
No. What would be better is a real minimum wage that didn't propogate this cycle and paternalistic attitude. |
The very real socio-economic problems in countries like SA will not be solved by a "real minimum wage". SA amother gave a good summary of the tip of the iceberg of what is going on in places like this. But just to address your one comment on minimum wage, basically in a place with a huge overabundance of unskilled/ uneducated laborers, raising the minimum wage simply leads to higher unemployment and a larger percentage of workers working "off the books" and receiving even less benefits and protections.
Your comments are very simplistic, and do not reflect a realistic understanding of how these types of economies work.
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I haven't touched my iron in years. (Neither has my maid.  )
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| Hashem_Yaazor |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 9:24 am Post subject: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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Whatever the maid is making, she does not have to spend it on housing (except if she chooses), food (she's fed), transportation, education (sounds like her kids' schooling is paid for?), utilities...so it's not a fair comparison to say what her take home pay is since her expenses are completely different than ours.
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 9:26 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| Raisin wrote: | | I'm so not letting me husband read this thread. He might suddenly ask me to iron his boxers to see if it really does feel better. |
I actually asked DH about this at dinner last night. He was horrified. He said if I was really interested in seeing if ironed undies were more comfortable, I could iron my own; keep the heck away from his. Ditto his tee shirts and polo shirts.
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| lili |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 9:37 am Post subject: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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wow
I iron all the outwear, also from the kids.
I fold ALL the laundry including shmattes, towels, otherwise everything would feel so messy.
Kudos to all of you who can just take it easy and are not bothered
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| Raisin |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 9:39 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | | Whatever the maid is making, she does not have to spend it on housing (except if she chooses), food (she's fed), transportation, education (sounds like her kids' schooling is paid for?), utilities...so it's not a fair comparison to say what her take home pay is since her expenses are completely different than ours. |
I don't think employers generally provide housing for servants children, from what I understand. The kids seem to stay behind in the townships or zimbabwe or wherever.
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| amother |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 9:51 am Post subject: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| Isn't this similar to the [gentile woman] situation in Monsey. The illegals are hired to do our menial tasks. They leave their kids in another country often leaving their spouse. They live in abominable conditions and pay dearly for the privilege to do so.
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| shabbatiscoming |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 11:52 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| amother wrote: | | Isn't this similar to the [gentile woman] situation in Monsey. The illegals are hired to do our menial tasks. They leave their kids in another country often leaving their spouse. They live in abominable conditions and pay dearly for the privilege to do so. | No, it is not like that at all. The illegal workers sound like they never go back to their country (I am just assuming from what you wrote) and the workers in SA are not paying dearly for the "privilege" to work there.
Please, as someone wrote earlier, if you know nothing about life in SA, except for hearsay and what you read here, dont comment in the negative because you are getting a slanted view.
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| shabbatiscoming |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 11:54 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| m in Israel wrote: | | ally wrote: |
No. What would be better is a real minimum wage that didn't propogate this cycle and paternalistic attitude. |
The very real socio-economic problems in countries like SA will not be solved by a "real minimum wage". SA amother gave a good summary of the tip of the iceberg of what is going on in places like this. But just to address your one comment on minimum wage, basically in a place with a huge overabundance of unskilled/ uneducated laborers, raising the minimum wage simply leads to higher unemployment and a larger percentage of workers working "off the books" and receiving even less benefits and protections.
Your comments are very simplistic, and do not reflect a realistic understanding of how these types of economies work. | This. Exactly.
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| bigprincess |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2012, 11:57 am Post subject: Re: re: How bad is it to not fold underwear? |
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| Barbara wrote: | | Raisin wrote: | | I'm so not letting me husband read this thread. He might suddenly ask me to iron his boxers to see if it really does feel better. |
I actually asked DH about this at dinner last night. He was horrified. He said if I was really interested in seeing if ironed undies were more comfortable, I could iron my own; keep the heck away from his. Ditto his tee shirts and polo shirts. |
I told dh if he wanted them ironed he can do it himself. My cleaning lady has better stuff to do.
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