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| Isramom8 |
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 Posted: Thu, Jun 07 2012, 3:00 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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If so, it's almost time for their bat or bar mitzvah.
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| Raisin |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 07 2012, 9:20 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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| grin wrote: | | Tova wrote: | | grin wrote: | | ewa-jo wrote: | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123050/Look-The-black-white-twins-turn-seven.html
Yes, this happened. In this case, the parents were mixed race.
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I see a totally different set of parents:
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This is an adorable family - is it two sets of twins, each one consisting of mainly one parent's genes? | yes, two sets of twins - and I didn't get the impression that this was a result of a mix-up.I showed dd the pic and she even pointed out to me that the older twins' facial features are very similar. |
I think it might be the same parents - they are just older and have different hairstyles etc and in one pic the mother is very tanned.
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| Grandmama |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 12:39 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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| Just heard about it today. Rav Wosner said to do a bris and give the twins up for adoption. Nebech. How sad.
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| grin |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 12:56 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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| Grandmama wrote: | | Just heard about it today. Rav Wosner said to do a bris and give the twins up for adoption. Nebech. How sad. | how awful!!! 
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| Isramom8 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 12:57 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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| Did he say they have to give up the children? Or did he just allow them to if they are freaked out or something?
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| turca |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 2:18 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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If the hole thing is true:
The issue is the twins are black. If there would be a mistake but the twins were white/european look, problably nobody would figure out. Unfortunately ppl look twice when they see a black jew.
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| Isramom8 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 3:31 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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| So if people will look twice at a children, they ddon't deserve to be raised by their parents? I bet the parents asked if they could give them up. I really doubt that the rav said they have to. Sad reflection on our society.
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| grin |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 4:00 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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| in most Jewish societies today, unfortunately, those children won't be "looked twice at" but isolated and worse.
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| ewa-jo |
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| shalhevet |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 4:41 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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Who says this is even true? Just sounds sensationalist to me. Does anyone actually know the couple this happened to? What, not one person on imamother is a friend/ relative/ neighbour? This is not exactly something you can hide.
And don't frum people have a shomer for the embryos? And davka in the one in a million case when something went wrong the babies happened to be black?
And then the next rumour is that they are going to be adopted, so no one will ever see them.
Puhleeze.
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| Isramom8 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 5:35 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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I suspect the entire story. I know of a case where a husband accused his wife of being unfaithful. He said that the child was another man's. They did a DNA test. The DNA test said that the child was NOT his.
The rav said, so what? We don't go by DNA tests. The child of a married woman is considered the child of her current husband. Period.
This woman in the story gave birth to twins with dark skin? She's married to a Jewish man? As far as I understand, they are her children, period.
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| tsiggelle |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 5:38 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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| shalhevet wrote: | Who says this is even true? Just sounds sensationalist to me. Does anyone actually know the couple this happened to? What, not one person on imamother is a friend/ relative/ neighbour? This is not exactly something you can hide.
And don't frum people have a shomer for the embryos? And davka in the one in a million case when something went wrong the babies happened to be black?
And then the next rumour is that they are going to be adopted, so no one will ever see them.
Puhleeze. |
my thought was that they adopted, and said they did ivf
and I dont believe many things on the internet and in newspapers, who really checks out those stories before going to print?
wait, oh wait, you people, when I am going to be a journalist, untrue stories which have enough truth in them to make them believable
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| smilingmom |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 6:42 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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How any women, who tried so difficult to have children, can carry babies for nine months and then just give them up is not credible.
Perhaps if this story is true, it is best she give them up. What a crappy mother she would be!
Cam you imagine if her kid had a disability or physical deformity, "let's give the kid up, I could never be seen with a kid who is ________"
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| ora_43 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 7:10 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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| smilingmom wrote: | How any women, who tried so difficult to have children, can carry babies for nine months and then just give them up is not credible.
Perhaps if this story is true, it is best she give them up. What a crappy mother she would be!
Cam you imagine if her kid had a disability or physical deformity, "let's give the kid up, I could never be seen with a kid who is ________" |
Pretty big difference there. A child born from an IVF mixup would be not genetically hers, which is presumably important to anyone who chose IVF. If a person in that situation chose to give up the child it would probably be because they never saw it as their own child in the first place.
But that's all in theory, since I agree with shalhevet that this sounds like an urban legend.
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| Isramom8 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 7:15 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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Not to judge an experience I never had, but can't it be seen as a clear sign from Hashem that no, really, you can't have biological children, get it? But I, Hashem, gave you these children.
(if the story really happened, that is)
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| o'mom |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 7:26 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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| Isramom8 wrote: | Not to judge an experience I never had, but can't it be seen as a clear sign from Hashem that no, really, you can't have biological children, get it? But I, Hashem, gave you these children.
(if the story really happened, that is) |
Absolutely not. We cannot decide what Hashem wanted from them. Even more so if you never experienced it. We need to be there for them, support them, encourage them and NEVER judge them or give ANY unsolicited advice.
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| tsiggelle |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 7:29 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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| Isramom8 wrote: | Not to judge an experience I never had, but can't it be seen as a clear sign from Hashem that no, really, you can't have biological children, get it? But I, Hashem, gave you these children.
(if the story really happened, that is) |
I don't know, Isramom8, when would you say people should stop trying to concieve? after how many years, or before/after which treatment do you say they should just accept the situation?
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| mommyhood |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 8:22 am Post subject: Re: re: IVF twins |
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| smilingmom wrote: | How any women, who tried so difficult to have children, can carry babies for nine months and then just give them up is not credible.
Perhaps if this story is true, it is best she give them up. What a crappy mother she would be!
Cam you imagine if her kid had a disability or physical deformity, "let's give the kid up, I could never be seen with a kid who is ________" |
Right or wrong there are many women who do give up children with disabilities. I personally know a family that's fostered special needs children (from frum families) whose parents did not want to take care of them and gave them up at birth. I don't think we can judge someone who is given such a nisayon.
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| Leesah |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 8:30 am Post subject: re: IVF twins |
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I don't think this is a true story.
Can't find any mention of it anywhere.
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| gp2.0 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 15 2012, 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Is no one thinking of the black parent(s) who did ivf too and probably DO want the baby? Maybe that's what's going on here: the jewish parents asked r wosner if they are halachically obligated to fight for custody and his reply was they are only halachically obligated to do a bris and then they CAN give them up. To the rightful parents who really want a child, too.
Totally my conjecture, but I prefer a positive spin whenever possible.
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