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| merelyme |
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 Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 1:21 am Post subject: Re: re: Name after a non-Jewish grandparent? |
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| marina wrote: | | amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | please ask a rav.
There is a lot of meaning in naming after someone. That's why we are careful to only name after good people. It's questionable about naming after someone who died young. Also - naming after a non jew could have a terrible effect on the neshama. You need to ask a rav about this. |
Right, and a non jew is obviously not a good person.  |
I'm not the amother who wrote that but I would assume a torah observant jew would not want her child leading a life like the non-jew he/she was named after. good can mean a lot of different things. bottom line is that that person was not shomer torah umitzvos and it can have an effect on the neshama. it's not so simple |
Oh. I got it now. So when you name a chid, you are expressing your hope that everything in that person's life will be just like everything in your child's life.
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marina, you're clever and sarcastic and funny, but that doesn't make everything you write correct.
The point remains that a person's name affects his/her neshama, and we try to be careful who we name for.
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| bamamama |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 3:01 am Post subject: Re: re: Name after a non-Jewish grandparent? |
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| marina wrote: | | amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | please ask a rav.
There is a lot of meaning in naming after someone. That's why we are careful to only name after good people. It's questionable about naming after someone who died young. Also - naming after a non jew could have a terrible effect on the neshama. You need to ask a rav about this. |
Right, and a non jew is obviously not a good person. (See bolded) |
I'm not the amother who wrote that but I would assume a torah observant jew would not want her child leading a life like the non-jew he/she was named after. good can mean a lot of different things. bottom line is that that person was not shomer torah umitzvos and it can have an effect on the neshama. it's not so simple |
Oh. I got it now. So when you name a chid, you are expressing your hope that everything in that person's life will be just like everything in your child's life.
Yehuda- I hope my dear son, that you have anonymous s e x with a prostitute and then declare that she should be burned to death as a punishment.
Dina- My dear daughter, I hope that you are raped by a nobleman who is then killed along with his whole town by your brothers.
Yosef- I hope, my son, you will be thrown into a pit by your brothers and left for dead.
Yitzchak- I hope, my dear son, that my husband your father will schlep you to a mountain ready to kill you for his deity.
Rachel- I hope, honey, that you die by the curse of your husband for stealing terafim from your father's home.
Ester- Hey, pumpkin, I hope you marry a gentile king and sleep with him all the days of your life.
Yonah- I hope you get swallowed by a whale. |
All my kids are named after non-Jews (we think) - we even have an Alexander so I guess it's inspired by 2 Non Jews. If I cover my hair 100% of the time (which IIRC via imamother lore is "known to bring good kids") will it all balance out? 
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| ora_43 |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 3:17 am Post subject: Re: re: Name after a non-Jewish grandparent? |
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| amother wrote: | please ask a rav.
There is a lot of meaning in naming after someone. That's why we are careful to only name after good people. It's questionable about naming after someone who died young. Also - naming after a non jew could have a terrible effect on the neshama. You need to ask a rav about this. |
I learned it's fine to name after downright terrible people, because the Hebrew names were also used by good people and have good meanings. Like (fake example), if I name a child Shmuel after an alcoholic grandparent who abused his kids, that's fine because Shmuel is also the name of a great prophet and many other good people. It may have been the name of a bad person I'm naming after, but it isn't a "bad name."
A non-Jew with a Jewish name would be an even more obvious "go ahead" - again, the name itself isn't non-Jewish. Like marina said, you're not expressing hope that the child will turn out like that person in every way.
I realize there may be other views. Just sharing what I learned to show it's not so simple. (And we're not "meikel" with names AFAIK, there are a few minhagim we follow in this area.)
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| Mrs Bissli |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 4:42 am Post subject: Re: re: Name after a non-Jewish grandparent? |
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| amother wrote: | | I'm not the amother who wrote that but I would assume a torah observant jew would not want her child leading a life like the non-jew he/she was named after. good can mean a lot of different things. bottom line is that that person was not shomer torah umitzvos and it can have an effect on the neshama. it's not so simple |
Maybe a Torah observant Jew(ess) may wants to name their child leading a life like the non-Jewish namesake. The namesake person most likely was not Torah observant, but may have plenty of middot the parents may hope their offsprings would emulate. Much better than cowardly posting a bigoted message annonymously IMHO.
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| merelyme |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 4:49 am Post subject: Re: re: Name after a non-Jewish grandparent? |
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| ora_43 wrote: | | amother wrote: | please ask a rav.
There is a lot of meaning in naming after someone. That's why we are careful to only name after good people. It's questionable about naming after someone who died young. Also - naming after a non jew could have a terrible effect on the neshama. You need to ask a rav about this. |
I learned it's fine to name after downright terrible people, because the Hebrew names were also used by good people and have good meanings. Like (fake example), if I name a child Shmuel after an alcoholic grandparent who abused his kids, that's fine because Shmuel is also the name of a great prophet and many other good people. It may have been the name of a bad person I'm naming after, but it isn't a "bad name."
A non-Jew with a Jewish name would be an even more obvious "go ahead" - again, the name itself isn't non-Jewish. Like marina said, you're not expressing hope that the child will turn out like that person in every way.
I realize there may be other views. Just sharing what I learned to show it's not so simple. (And we're not "meikel" with names AFAIK, there are a few minhagim we follow in this area.) |
In that case, most people who use the name would "have in mind" the good person - in your example, the prophet Shmuel - as who your child is actually being named for.
If asked, "Who is he named after?" they give a not-quite-answer like, "DH's grandfather's name is Shmuel."
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| Ruchel |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 11:27 am Post subject: Re: re: Name after a non-Jewish grandparent? |
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| amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | please ask a rav.
There is a lot of meaning in naming after someone. That's why we are careful to only name after good people. It's questionable about naming after someone who died young. Also - naming after a non jew could have a terrible effect on the neshama. You need to ask a rav about this. |
Right, and a non jew is obviously not a good person. (See bolded) |
I'm not the amother who wrote that but I would assume a torah observant jew would not want her child leading a life like the non-jew he/she was named after. good can mean a lot of different things. bottom line is that that person was not shomer torah umitzvos and it can have an effect on the neshama. it's not so simple |
He doesn't have to. Maybe he followed the Noachide laws.
Not naming after someone non frum is so pessimistic. Chances are this person was named for someone frum. For one or two people non frum, you cancel the whole namesake chain? woah. Way to look at the bad side... why not do a tikkun on these neshamos and honour the frum ancestor?
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| chani8 |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: re: Name after a non-Jewish grandparent? |
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| marina wrote: | | amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | please ask a rav.
There is a lot of meaning in naming after someone. That's why we are careful to only name after good people. It's questionable about naming after someone who died young. Also - naming after a non jew could have a terrible effect on the neshama. You need to ask a rav about this. |
Right, and a non jew is obviously not a good person. (See bolded) |
I'm not the amother who wrote that but I would assume a torah observant jew would not want her child leading a life like the non-jew he/she was named after. good can mean a lot of different things. bottom line is that that person was not shomer torah umitzvos and it can have an effect on the neshama. it's not so simple |
Oh. I got it now. So when you name a chid, you are expressing your hope that everything in that person's life will be just like everything in your child's life.
Yehuda- I hope my dear son, that you have anonymous s e x with a prostitute and then declare that she should be burned to death as a punishment.
Dina- My dear daughter, I hope that you are raped by a nobleman who is then killed along with his whole town by your brothers.
Yosef- I hope, my son, you will be thrown into a pit by your brothers and left for dead.
Yitzchak- I hope, my dear son, that my husband your father will schlep you to a mountain ready to kill you for his deity.
Rachel- I hope, honey, that you die by the curse of your husband for stealing terafim from your father's home.
Ester- Hey, pumpkin, I hope you marry a gentile king and sleep with him all the days of your life.
Yonah- I hope you get swallowed by a whale. |
This was hilarious. I think it's probably the funniest post this year!!!
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