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Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 20, 2012
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chocolate chips

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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 10:14 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

imamiri wrote:

sequoia wrote:

So where are they on THIS thread?

Wondering what the fuss is about? I've noticed most Lubavitchers (at least those OOT) tend to be way more...chillax, if you will, than the rest of their chassidic cousins.

ETA: I think the reason why Lubavitchers seems more level headed on this, and less given to hysterics is because of their kiruv work. Many Lubavitchers live OOT and have figured out you don't bring people back with fire and brimstone and they don't have an all or nothing outlook.

Yup. And I think that a lot of my reasonings come from the same thing. I grew up VERY OOT. If not for internet when I got older and all my friends moved away, I would have been one lonely sucker. My parents are not happy about various parts of the internet but they do know that it keeps all the family close together and helps them in more ways than not.

Lubavitch use the internet for good. They have skype classes, they advertise events, they connect with people. So they are more level headed on this.
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grin

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Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 10:20 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

imamiri wrote:

sequoia wrote:

So where are they on THIS thread?

The Rebbe felt that TV and internet is a tool just like a screwdriver or an ax, that can be used either for good or for ch'v evil - his weekday talks (on a chassidish YT) were televised.

Our rabbanim have disallowed unmoderated comments on websites and also mandate using filters - but I think both are self-explanatory.
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BusyBeeMommy

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Location: on the scale

Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 10:20 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

marina wrote:

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

marina wrote:

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

marina wrote:

If you are so innocent, naiive, and sheltered, that a brief exposure to temptation will lead you forever astray into the world of addictions and sin, you need more help than any asifa can ever provide. And also Judaism, the religion of self control and restrictions, is really not for you.

And finally, no. I really don't give a **** if frum men spend their time zera levatalaing to nekkid ladies on the internet. As long as children aren't being abused and wives aren't being beaten, I'm all good- those men can shlug kapores all night long. I'm not losing sleep over it.

And in Judaism there is a concept of never being complacent with oneself and setting up proper guard rails in place.

Don't simplify the issues we have from internet to a bunch of men zera levatala-ing to naked ladies. The internet is enabling infidelity. It's causing young, sweet, pure souls to be exposed to the dredges of impurity. It is ripping families apart due to addictions to benign websites. Parents are more interested in sitting on their computers than in speaking with their children. Even something as simple as facebook causes jealousy among others when they see the pictures people posted about their great vacations or homes and such, painting their life as picture perfect. It is causing those with difficult emotional or mental stress to escape to cyberworld instead of facing their issues head-on and getting help.

Yes, the internet is enabling a lot of good too, and it is needed to pay one's bills or do college homework. THat's why it's not a black and white issue.

Don't put down people who are trying to do whatever they can to protect themselves from something so easy to succumb to. The greater a person is the stronger their evil inclination. Who are you to say that if someone feels they need protection in the form of a filter then they are not great??

How about an asifa about ICE CREAM and DONUTS? Please, don't laugh. It's a very serious matter. ICE CREAM and DONUTS are enabling obesity and diabetes and many other health problems. ICE CREAM and DONUTS are ripping families apart due to addictions. ICE CREAM and DONUTS are causing young pure and innocent children to be exposed to corn syrup. I am more interested in sitting and spending time with ICE CREAM and DONUTS than listing to my whining children. ICE CREAM and DONUTS cause jealousy because I am so jealous of people who can eat ICE CREAM and DONUTS and still look good.

That's called mockery.

We all know that food does not risk harming the spirituality of people as much as a fraction of a fraction of the internet so your argument does not hold up one teensy tiny bit.

Are you in denial about the dangers of the internet?

BusyBee, maybe you can do some research about the dangers of obesity, diabetes, pcos, and other food-related illnesses.

How many people die each year from obesity and diabetes? How many die from the internet?

I'm confused. Are we talking about spiritual dangers or physical? Because I was specifically referring to spiritual dangers of the internet, not physical. And just to be clear, there are plenty of nutritionists, life coaches, counselors and rehab facilities for those dealing with eating disorders/food addictions. Haven't heard of too many attending a rehab for internet addiction. Not to mention that the internet also contributes to obesity. Many who are on the computer for long hours do not get enough physical exercise.
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StripedFlower

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Posts: 173

Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

imamiri wrote:

StripedFlower wrote:

marina wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I wish the Lubavitchers would speak up...

I am proud of chabad with regard to this

What do you mean?

They were there too.

Many of them have come out against it. Read the links.

And besides. Those rabbis you have decided we all must follow said bye-bye internet. So when are you logging out?

I don't know if you follow any blogs, but Chabad through a HUGE tantrum when they weren't invited to the asifa, davka because people were sure they wouldn't be interested, and so they were invited, with great respect and their leading rabbonim signed and attended. So some shliach in a university town somewhere disagrees, big deal.

Which rabbis said bye-bye internet?

StripedFlower

Senior Member

Joined: Feb 11 2012
Posts: 173

Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

grin wrote:

imamiri wrote:

sequoia wrote:

So where are they on THIS thread?

What? The Lubavitcher Rebbe did not approve of having a television.

de_goldy

Diamond Member

Joined: Sep 18 2004
Posts: 2600

Posted: Wed, May 23 2012, 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

StripedFlower wrote:

imamiri wrote:

StripedFlower wrote:

marina wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I wish the Lubavitchers would speak up...

I am proud of chabad with regard to this

What do you mean?

They were there too.

Many of them have come out against it. Read the links.

And besides. Those rabbis you have decided we all must follow said bye-bye internet. So when are you logging out?

lol. this is so incorrect I don't even know where to start!

StrawberrySmoothie

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Posts: 1775

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 12:36 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

StripedFlower wrote:

imamiri wrote:

StripedFlower wrote:

marina wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I wish the Lubavitchers would speak up...

I am proud of chabad with regard to this

What do you mean?

They were there too.

Many of them have come out against it. Read the links.

And besides. Those rabbis you have decided we all must follow said bye-bye internet. So when are you logging out?

Seriously? Where do you get your info from? Chabad had zero interest in attending. We just do not appreciate not being considered part of Klal Yisroel.

Some shliach in a university town? Are you referring to Manis Friedman? He's not some shliach. He is a world class scholar, brilliant man, and a chossid. Yes, he is a shliach. But he is also much much more than that.

StrawberrySmoothie

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Posts: 1775

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 12:39 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

StripedFlower wrote:

imamiri wrote:

StripedFlower wrote:

marina wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I wish the Lubavitchers would speak up...

I am proud of chabad with regard to this

What do you mean?

They were there too.

Many of them have come out against it. Read the links.

And besides. Those rabbis you have decided we all must follow said bye-bye internet. So when are you logging out?

Oh and our "leading rabbonim" did not attend. 2 Lubavitch Rabbonim attended. But internet is far from banned in Lubavitch.

StripedFlower

Senior Member

Joined: Feb 11 2012
Posts: 173

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 5:38 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

de_goldy wrote:

lol. this is so incorrect I don't even know where to start!

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Oh and our "leading rabbonim" did not attend. 2 Lubavitch Rabbonim attended. But internet is far from banned in Lubavitch.[/quote]

So why did they attend?

And this is not purely about banning the internet,. you know that. that's been made clear many times.

5*Mom

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Joined: Sep 12 2011
Posts: 1953

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 5:52 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

StripedFlower wrote:

And this is not purely about banning the internet,. you know that. that's been made clear many times.

Well this is what makes it so interesting, b/c it seems that different people who were actually there heard different things. Hmm, that was unpredictable.

I have heard and read from people who were there that they heard speakers say things like children with internet at home should not be accepted into schools and families should not make shidduchim with families who have internet at home. How would you classify that?

StrawberrySmoothie

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Posts: 1775

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:30 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

StripedFlower wrote:

de_goldy wrote:

lol. this is so incorrect I don't even know where to start!

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Oh and our "leading rabbonim" did not attend. 2 Lubavitch Rabbonim attended. But internet is far from banned in Lubavitch.

So why did they attend?

And this is not purely about banning the internet,. you know that. that's been made clear many times.[/quote]

No clue! I have not discussed it with them nor am I in their heads. But the approach taken at the asifa is not the approach taken in the Lubavitch world. And I doubt it ever will be...

gryp

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Joined: Sep 11 2004
Posts: 19241

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:32 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

StripedFlower wrote:

de_goldy wrote:

lol. this is so incorrect I don't even know where to start!

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Oh and our "leading rabbonim" did not attend. 2 Lubavitch Rabbonim attended. But internet is far from banned in Lubavitch.

So why did they attend?

And this is not purely about banning the internet,. you know that. that's been made clear many times.[/quote]
Two of our Crown Heights Rabbonim attended because they were invited and probably wanted to be nice.

This is the classic "Sur Me'rah" and "Aseh Tov" controversy that has been going on for centuries. Most of the ultra-frum world, when they encounter something that can be used for bad, shun it. Our derech has always been to use it for good. Chabad does so much on the internet between shiurim, online school, etc., that to think of getting rid of the internet is simply unfathomable. It's not anywhere near our agenda.

Many Lubavitchers were insulted when they believed the third or fourth hand rumor going around that we were not being invited because we aren't part of Klal Yisroel. Many Lubavitchers like me are smart enough not to believe reports that aren't first-hand, and anyway, it's lashon hara and we aren't allowed to believe it. And even if it was a true story- so what? Does it really change anything for us? Nope.

By the way, Lubavitch is much bigger than Crown Heights.

Last point: Crown Heights had an event last year called Raising the Kedusha of our homes, which was all about filters on internet devices, parenting, and addiction awareness. Because of the asifa, they put the cd (recorded the event) back on the shelves for people to buy ($10).

I googled Rabbi Manis Friedman for some kind of biography of what he does (for those who think he's just a shliach in a college town) and saw he has a website: http://www.rabbifriedman.org/about-rabbi-friedman
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StrawberrySmoothie

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Posts: 1775

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:35 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

gryp wrote:

StripedFlower wrote:

de_goldy wrote:

lol. this is so incorrect I don't even know where to start!

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Oh and our "leading rabbonim" did not attend. 2 Lubavitch Rabbonim attended. But internet is far from banned in Lubavitch.

So why did they attend?

And this is not purely about banning the internet,. you know that. that's been made clear many times.

Two of our Crown Heights Rabbonim attended because they were invited and probably wanted to be nice.

This is the classic "Sur Me'rah" and "Aseh Tov" controversy that has been going on for centuries. Most of the ultra-frum world, when they encounter something that can be used for bad, shun it. Our derech has always been to use it for good. Chabad does so much on the internet between shiurim, online school, etc., that to think of getting rid of the internet is simply unfathomable. It's not anywhere near our agenda.

Many Lubavitchers were insulted when they believed the third or fourth hand rumor going around that we were not being invited because we aren't part of Klal Yisroel. Many Lubavitchers like me are smart enough not to believe reports that aren't first-hand, and anyway, it's lashon hara and we aren't allowed to believe it. And even if it was a true story- so what? Does it really change anything for us? Nope.

By the way, Lubavitch is much bigger than Crown Heights.

Last point: Crown Heights had an event last year called Raising the Kedusha of our homes, which was all about filters on internet devices, parenting, and addiction awareness. Because of the asifa, they put the cd (recorded the event) back on the shelves for people to buy ($10).

I googled Rabbi Manis Friedman for some kind of biography of what he does (for those who think he's just a shliach in a college town) and saw he has a website: http://www.rabbifriedman.org/[/quote]

Thank you gryp, for saying it better than I ever could!!

gryp

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Posts: 19241

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:40 am Post subject: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 20, 2

No prob. I feel it's important to sort through fact and fiction. FTR, I have a very big problem with some of the statements made at the asifa, referring to not accepting children into schools, not marrying someone whose home has internet, giving up Olam Haba, and the like, because in essence, you are not banning internet, you are banning (a large segment of) PEOPLE.

StrawberrySmoothie

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Joined: Jan 07 2009
Posts: 1775

Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:42 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

gryp wrote:

No prob. I feel it's important to sort through fact and fiction.

FTR, I have a very big problem with some of the statements made at the asifa, referring to not accepting children into schools, not marrying someone whose home has internet, giving up Olam Haba, and the like, because in essence, you are not banning internet, you are banning (a large segment of) PEOPLE.

It's happened before and it definitely will not be the last time it happens!

Ruchel

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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:46 am Post subject: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 20, 2

How did the rabbis who opposed going presented it to their kehila? _________________ "You will have many many children and make successful shidduchim beh", rebbetzin Esther Jungreis "It's all cultural, disagree respectfully", me

gryp

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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:47 am Post subject: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 20, 2

One more thing: In my mind, there is no such thing as "just" a shliach in a college town. Campus shluchim do incredible work. My brother is a campus shliach in a tiny town and had dozens of students for his first night seder this past Pesach. Building on their connection to Judaism for each one of them. While we human beings may think of it as just 100 students because some sedarim have double that, I know Hashem cares very much about each of those 100 neshamos.

gryp

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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 9:52 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

gryp wrote:

It's happened before and it definitely will not be the last time it happens!

Well, I hope it doesn't happen again. The mindset has turned a lot of people off. And it's such a shame when there were thousands of people focusing their attention on the event, thousands waiting to be inspired, wanting to follow the words of great people.

An asifa for teshuva and hisorerus before Moshiach comes, with everyone davening together, would have reached a lot further. Into the people attending and to the bystanders who are also part of Klal Yisroel.

StrawberrySmoothie

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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 10:01 am Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

gryp wrote:

One more thing: In my mind, there is no such thing as "just" a shliach in a college town. Campus shluchim do incredible work. My brother is a campus shliach in a tiny town and had dozens of students for his first night seder this past Pesach. Building on their connection to Judaism for each one of them. While we human beings may think of it as just 100 students because some sedarim have double that, I know Hashem cares very much about each of those 100 neshamos.

True. But to think of Manis Friedman as just a shliach in a college town is laughable.

PinkFridge

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Posted: Thu, May 24 2012, 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: re: Mandatory Lecture for all Jewish MEN in NYC on MAY 2

gryp wrote:

An asifa for teshuva and hisorerus before Moshiach comes, with everyone davening together, would have reached a lot further. Into the people attending and to the bystanders who are also part of Klal Yisroel.

Leaving aside everything else, there was that kind of hisorrerus. At the end several of the rabbanim, particularly Rav Segal, shlit"a, led those there and the hundreds if not thousands at the hookups in the same nusach of kabbalas ol malchus Shamayim said at the end of Yom Kippur. And copies of the tefilla of the Sh'lah that's said on erev Rosh Chodesh Sivan (particularly, not exclusively) were handed out and we said it in real time with the asifa. After that was maariv, at the asifa and locally. I think there was something very real that happened then.
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