Need idea for appropriate response to my son

my 5 1/2 year old wrote all over the living room wall with red sharpie. he is old enough to know that he is not allowed to do that. I just don't get it - is he really so clueless? is he trying to make me angry?
he has always been difficult - doesn't listen to rules, doesn't listen when I talk to him, always touching and breaking things.
time outs don't really seem to be solving anything. sticker charts don't work on a regular basis.
He's also recently begun denying everything he does and blaming his younger brother. he keeps telling the other kids not to behave, and he is getting so chutzpadik.
I could really use some ideas in general and for this specifically.
thanks!!!

Gold Member Joined: Jul 02 2010 Posts: 1416

It's not about you. He wasn't trying to make your life harder. He saw a bright marker, and nice white wall, a perfect palate for his artwork. He sounds totally normal for a 5 year old.

You don't have to yell. All you need to do is say "walls are not for coloring on. Here's let's clean that up" (and hand him the magic eraser) - then give him paper to color on.

Gold Member Joined: Jul 02 2010 Posts: 1416

Also, the lying is very normal for this age. He's trying to please you by telling you the answers he thinks you want to hear. Just guide him to the cleanup gently and don't get worked up about it. He's not chutzpadik or clueless - but clearly the way you're dealing with these issues are not helping, just making things worse. Give him some slack. 5 year olds need reminders of the rules, and he needs structure and routine.

Also, his egging on his younger sibs is totally normal. Try to gear him toward encouraging them to do positive things together, instead of mischief.

It really sounds like he's under a lot of criticism on a regular basis. Positive encouragement would do him a lot of good. Every time you think to criticize, try to stop yourself and find something to praise instead.

Like instead of "stop leading your brother into mischief" how about "Wow, look at the kind of leadership skills you're using - you can do a lot of good with your kochos! Let's think of what things you can do with those incredible powers!"

Gold Member Joined: Jul 02 2010 Posts: 1416

One more thing: I don't mean to discount your obviously upset feelings. Certainly, having your LR messed up is quite upsetting! I just want to suggest more gentle ways of guiding your son so that you don't have to blow up at him every time he does something bad. Sure, he has to clean it up, and that's not always pleasant, but if your go crazy, he may see that this is the only way to get a reaction out of you. After he cleans, be sure to cuddle and hug him, and try to forgive him. He really doesn't mean to make you so upset and he just wants your affection and attention - so give him some positive attention in a time when things are calmed down.

Gold Member Joined: Mar 23 2007 Posts: 1877 Location: NY

While I agree with most of what Chavela said, in our house, we would also give some sort of appropriate punishment, like taking away a privilege, a timeout (though that's more for our younger one) etc
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I could not help bt laugh when I read this. My five year old does exactly everything that u wrote. My three yr old is evenharder and the two of them together are a super demolition crew. My whole house is covered in pen, markers and crayons. I hae given up on cleaning it. I know it is hard to deal with, but these behaviors are normal until ae seven. One piece of advice, never yell or hit, it does not work. Hang in there and hopefully u will always get a lot of nachas from him.

Executive Member Joined: Sep 14 2011 Posts: 475

it sounds like there is something that goes way deeper then the red marker and white wall.... is there something more emotional he could be bothered by?

Gold Member Joined: Aug 19 2011 Posts: 2038

Both issues are completely normal 5-year-old-boy behavior. ITA with what Chavelamomela said. It's infuriating to see your things wrecked, but this is what kids do. Help him clean it up and get on with your lives. Punishment may make YOU feel better, but it will have ZERO effect on his learning other than making him mad/confused. The punishment won't keep him from doing it again - it's just a little kid thing. This too shall pass.

Silver Member Joined: Mar 26 2009 Posts: 947

Diamond Member Joined: Aug 07 2006 Posts: 2556

Don't freak out. Little kids don't learn from this. They also don't really "get" why drawing on the wall is so terrible. Even the most angelic well-behaved youngsters have been known to do this, quite innocently.

Assuming that he knew in advance that drawing on the wall was not permitted: "Writing on the wall is not allowed. All the markers are going on vacation for one week." Lock up the markers, and that's that. Have him help you clean it up, although how you are going to get Sharpie off the wall remains a question.

Then: "Here is where we keep the drawing paper. You and your siblings may use crayon and paper for drawing. If you draw on the wall, or tell your brother to draw on the wall, you will have another consequence."

Hope this helps!

Moderator Joined: Dec 18 2008 Posts: 3612

Totally normal.
Cleanup is the natural consequence, no punishment necessary. If you do it with him (highly recommended) you can talk about how we color on paper, not on the walls, and don't clean white walls look nice?

Go for the positive reinforcement and have lots of nachas!
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Gold Member Joined: Aug 19 2011 Posts: 2038

Gold Member Joined: Sep 12 2011 Posts: 1951

thanks everyone! I would normally have him clean up, but I don't want him scrubbing with rubbing alcohol!!
I used to try to take everything in stride, but it's getting really hard as he's the oldest of 4 and probably the most difficult! Especially when he's making the other kids cry... and they know how to cry!!!

Silver Member Joined: Nov 18 2007 Posts: 944

Gold Member Joined: Aug 19 2011 Posts: 2038