Are those from non-observant families non-accountable?

if someone comes from a non-observant family, where they are not brought up to know about Judaism and the laws, are they not held accountable for their lack of observance? since it's harder for them

I don't think they are non - accountable, but I think due to possible difficulties for what they do they are rewarded more

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2595

According to some authorities (notably the Rambam, who was discussing the children and grandchildren of Karaites), someone from a non frum family is a tinok shenishba and is not in the same category as someone who knowingly violates the Torah. I have known non-Orthodox Jews who find this view condescending and while I understand their point, I think the argument has validity. Someone who willfully breaks a law is different from someone who has never been taught about it.

I don't know, I often wonder about that

Platinum Member Joined: Jan 01 2006 Posts: 48155

However, the person who doesn't know to eat matza on Pesach, for example, doesn't get credit for it.

Since we can never know another person's circumstances, we have no way of knowing what Hashem does or doesn't hold him accountable for. The same applies for FFB Jews who slip in something. Al tadun etc.
But I may be held accountable for not teaching him otherwise.

In addition, Judaism is not all about avoiding punishment. There is a spiritual effect accomplished by the performance of a Mitzvah, which cannot be accomplished by other means. So even if a person is not at fault and will not be punished, he and the whole world will still be lacking the benefit of his Mitzvah.
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Gold Member Joined: Jul 25 2011 Posts: 1520

What if the family knows about some of the laws, but not all? What if the kid comes from a frum family but was abused or only received negative or non-consistent messages about the Torah and Hashem? I wonder....

I think bottom line is - Hashem is the true judge.
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Diamond Member Joined: Jan 14 2011 Posts: 2733

the circumstances that a person is born into was designated specifically for him to help him reach his personal highest spiritual levels. perhaps someone born into a secular family had the journey of becoming observant, and through that journey reached his spiritual goals. or perhaps he never became observant, but fulfilled his spiritual goals in other ways. I really doubt that Hashem chose these circumstances for certain people with the idea that they are really supposed to be observant, and therefore aren't fulfilling their destiny. so are they accountable? of course! everyone is accountable for their actions and for their spiritual journey, but I doubt what Hashem considers "accountable" is the same as what you consider "accountable."

if someone doesn't know that it's not allowed to drive on shabbat or to work on shabbat (because their family never taught them that or perhaps didn't really know themselves) then of course they are not held accountable if they do this

however, like someone said if the individual takes it upon themselves to learn more about Judaism or starts to keep more of the laws than their parents then obviously, can you imagine the extra pride Hashem takes in them - obviously like someone else said, that is part of their personal mission, I heard it said somewhere that more and more often the roles are reversing and children are nowadays teaching their parents about Judaism and the laws, rather than the other way round! we don't know why each individual is placed where they are placed, but they can still have the same closeness, if not more, than someone who was placed in an observant family where things came automatic to them

also, the way we are judged is not only according to observance - it's so much more than that. G-d judges us not only on our observance of His laws but on our conduct to our fellow man. if someone is kind , caring, helpful - G-d loves that person, because that's how He treats them/us in return. the more you show yourself to be a kind and caring person the more G-d will want to care for you. Those who are born into the more secular or non observant families are given credit for their good deeds and maybe they have some special mission in this area of life.

What about the person who was FFB, taught religion with so many chumros, and then rebelled (for some reason), and while trying to do a more basic form of judaism, but doesn't understand what is halacha and what isn't, transgresses a halacha d'oraisa by accident?

What does H think of someone like that? Does He still love that person?

We don't know what Hashem thinks.

I learned some rules are to be known by everyone, like "do not kill", and a frum and a tinok shenishba are judged the same on this, but some rules can't be known without teaching, some even without extended teaching, and then obviously it makes a difference.
I agree with Hadasa that it's not all about punishment but also spiritual negative or positive effects, hence the need to teach Jews. But as my rav says one needs to teach carefully, because if now he knows how bad something is and still doesn't give a thought of doing it... we made it worse for him. And at the same time, who knows, maybe 20 years after he'll make teshuva over what you said.

It's so very hard.
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