Spinoff: What is "class"? Who has it? Who doesn't?

Silver Member Joined: Aug 30 2010 Posts: 608

On another thread, plastic tablecloths, stacking and scraping, were designated as crass or declasse by a few imamothers.

So - what does class depend on? Education? Wealth? Lineage/Yichus? Ethnic origin? Color? Upbringing? Private schooling? Manners? Cultural interests? Choice of leisure activities? All/some/none of the above?
Is it culture dependent? Is class in one culture not classy in another?

I'm thinking of a Moroccan family I know - in their circles they are considered aristocracy - wealthy, highly educated, family members have influential positions in academia, the rabbinate, business, banking and government. To my ashkenazi temperament, I sometimes find them to be a bit much - loud at times, flashy dress, too much gold jewelry, over-effusive, touchy-feely - In their circles they definitely have class, and I definitely don't - I don't have the lineage or the money or the influence. In my circles, few would classify them as "class".

A class is a group that has common unifying characteristics, but who can say she is more classy than another? She is just different - not better or classier, different. Does this mean one should only marry within their well-defined, subscribed little group? How boring. And definitely not the way the world is going. I think being open to others is enriching - oneself and the entire community.

I don't know about other groups or even my own group what is CONSIDERED classy. but I call a classy person a person who is always neat and appropriate. being in dress, speech or behavior.
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Diamond Member Joined: Aug 07 2006 Posts: 2556

Gold Member Joined: May 09 2010 Posts: 2125

The only time I can remember describing a particular person as "a class act" compared to another was when I told a Red Sox fan that Jonathan Papelbon might be a good pitcher, but he could never hope to have a fraction of Mariano Rivera's class. And the guy, who was vociferously anti-all things Yankee, agreed.

By which I meant, that Papelbon is a loud showoff who likes attention and is generally annoying. Rivera is quiet, a team player who does his job really well and isn't bigheaded or attention-grabby.

I suppose that to me, classy is about demeanor, taking a shvil hazahav when it comes to behavior and appearance and so on. People might follow rigid rules of etiquette, but that doesn't automatically qualify them as "classy". To me, anyway.
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Diamond Member Joined: Feb 21 2011 Posts: 2693

class has traditionally been associated with the background of one's parents, what occupation they have and what is their social standing.
but it's true that some people "make good" while brought up in a working class family/background.

but ultimately what makes a person classy I think is the way they conduct themselves, their general deameanor and manner. classy doesn't necessarily mean one is a good person though. one can be very rugged and with a rough exterior, but a soft heart underneath. appearances can be deceptive sometimes.

What Spring and Dr.Mom said.
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"The best way to keep a prisoner from escaping is to make sure he never knows he�s in prison."
� Fyodor Dostoevsky (via cosmic-rebirth)

Class in the west is different than class in North africa and class in the east. First, the use of the word. The word "class act" or "classy" is definitely used by such people in the middle east, in the east (orient) and in the mediterranean. It isn't used by them in central and western europe and in the united states. Don't know about South america. That's a linguistic difference and not much more.

In the west and the orient class is understated. In the mediterranean and north africa and the middle east it is not. That's a cultural difference. Class is a certain type of good manners which is considered top etiquette in a person's society (western versus mediterranean versus orient etc.). Class isn't money, but it often goes together with a very good education, and that can cost money unless someone is lucky enough to attend the best schools on scholarship, because in those schools the education usually pushes these manners per course.

Class is comportment, which includes everything from dress to body hygiene to how one holds onesself, to how one talks in terms of loudness, tone of voice, vocabulary (never using curse words and the like or cheap language) etc. Again, one doesn't have to have money to be like that, "dress" doesnt necessarily mean expensive dresses but rather a certain standard of what is acceptable where. Dress is always understated in the sense of never flashy, never drawing blatant attention, but never totally drab. Just "suitable". Of course it's easeir when one has money, once again, but possible without. Certainly comportment, tone of voice etc. has nothing to do with having money.

But...once again, people often act as their surroundings, their peer groups, their society acts. And in certain groups of soceity very little emphasis is put on comportment, on a certain type of dress, and a certain type of language and demeanor. So a person wanting to act more upper class (yes in this part of the world the word is definitely used by that group) starts acting that way and being totally different than his/her peers, that's going to be very hard.

Class isn't religion, isn't morals and isn't ethics. People can be low class in comportment, demeanor, dress, etc. can have very high morals and good ethics. Can belong to any religion. Technically at least.

But in practice, once again, much of a certain type of whatever goes together. A certain type of dress, demeanor, comportment, behavior, standards etc...and, at least a declarative support of a high standard of ethics and morals. Unfortunately in practice that doesn't always occur, just like there are very frum people who are very makpid on externals and chumros and in things having to do with being odom lamokom but in terms of theivery, honesty etc. fail miserably...however at least declaratively they are supposed to try and keep to the same high standard in bein odom lachavero...
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"Olam Chessed Yiboneh", Tehilim 89.

Several businesses were involved in litigation; plaintiff, a company that was largely identified with its owner, claimed damages in the mid-8 figure range. Plaintiff was also located in a relatively small city with few good restaurants. Inevitably, during depositions, the plaintiff's owner wound up dining in the same restaurant as defense counsel.

He sent them dessert.

To me, that epitomizes class. It was a statement of respect. That he did not personalize things.

More broadly, class is acting appropriately under the circumstances presented, and treating others with dignity and respect.

Gold Member Joined: Nov 17 2010 Posts: 1018