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Amother


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Posted: Wed, Feb 15 2012, 5:37 am Post subject: night time training - a few questions |
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My DC is almost 4 years old. I know that my DC is just about ready to stop with the diaper. We make sure that DC goes to the toilet before bedtime and try not to have too much to drink before then, but how do I know that DC is ready or not?
By what age is "normal" to be trained at night?
And how does one do that training?
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Posted: Wed, Feb 15 2012, 9:10 am Post subject: re: night time training - a few questions |
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every child is different. is your childs diaper wet in the morning? how wet?
for example. my 5.5 yr ds old is still in pull ups at night because every morning its quite wet, whereas my 3.5 yr old ds is out of them cos I noticed that his were basically dry so I just took it off. bh he goes right through the night completely dry and occasionaly takes himself to the toilet at night bh.
I am planning on trying to take off my 5.5yr olds pull up cos iv had enough and think that theres an element of laziness going on.... so wel c what happens!
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 4:42 am Post subject: re: night time training - a few questions |
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:05 am Post subject: re: night time training - a few questions |
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I'll tell you about my recent experience. It might help you. My DS, age 4, was still wearing a diaper at night and taking a bottle of water to bed and waking up with a saturated diaper. He was even getting sticky from it and I didn't have time to shower him every morning. I had tried training diapers that change color when wet and things like that, but it made no difference at all. I wasn;'t sure what to do because I didn't know for sure that he could be dry. He started asking DH how you stay dry all night. DH started taking him to the bathroom at about 11 pm each night and we found that he was dry until then but still woke up wet in the morning.
Then, on Shabbos afternoon he was tired so he took a nap (doesn't usually) and, naturally, he had no diaper on. He slept for no less than about 3 hours, and the bed was perfectly dry afterwards. So, we decided that night, he would go to bed without a diaper and he decided, with encouragement, not to take the bottle of water to bed either. We woke him up twice in the night and took him to the toilet. He was so nervous that he wouldn't sleep for several hours and kept getting out of bed to go to the bathroom. Eventually, I realized he was nervous and told him that the only reason we are doing this is because we know he can do it and reminded him what had happened in the afternoon. Then he felt reassured and went to sleep. On the first night, at about 3 in the morning, he did wet the bed and was a bit traumatized, but then he was dry from then until the morning. The next night, he didn't make at the 3 am wake-up and was dry through the night. Tonight is the third night, and I think we will drop the 3 am wake-up.
So, our experience was that two things helped: 1. wanting to do it, and 2. not wearing a diaper.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:08 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| EvenI wrote: | I'll tell you about my recent experience. It might help you. My DS, age 4, was still wearing a diaper at night and taking a bottle of water to bed and waking up with a saturated diaper. He was even getting sticky from it and I didn't have time to shower him every morning. I had tried training diapers that change color when wet and things like that, but it made no difference at all. I wasn;'t sure what to do because I didn't know for sure that he could be dry. He started asking DH how you stay dry all night. DH started taking him to the bathroom at about 11 pm each night and we found that he was dry until then but still woke up wet in the morning.
Then, on Shabbos afternoon he was tired so he took a nap (doesn't usually) and, naturally, he had no diaper on. He slept for no less than about 3 hours, and the bed was perfectly dry afterwards. So, we decided that night, he would go to bed without a diaper and he decided, with encouragement, not to take the bottle of water to bed either. We woke him up twice in the night and took him to the toilet. He was so nervous that he wouldn't sleep for several hours and kept getting out of bed to go to the bathroom. Eventually, I realized he was nervous and told him that the only reason we are doing this is because we know he can do it and reminded him what had happened in the afternoon. Then he felt reassured and went to sleep. On the first night, at about 3 in the morning, he did wet the bed and was a bit traumatized, but then he was dry from then until the morning. The next night, he didn't make at the 3 am wake-up and was dry through the night. Tonight is the third night, and I think we will drop the 3 am wake-up.
So, our experience was that two things helped: 1. wanting to do it, and 2. not wearing a diaper. | So the desire is needed you are saying. Thats a good point.
Also, do you think that those wake ups in the middle of the night made a difference? Meaning you set your alarm to wake you in the middle of the night to take him to the bathroom?
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:26 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| amother wrote: | | EvenI wrote: | I'll tell you about my recent experience. It might help you. My DS, age 4, was still wearing a diaper at night and taking a bottle of water to bed and waking up with a saturated diaper. He was even getting sticky from it and I didn't have time to shower him every morning. I had tried training diapers that change color when wet and things like that, but it made no difference at all. I wasn;'t sure what to do because I didn't know for sure that he could be dry. He started asking DH how you stay dry all night. DH started taking him to the bathroom at about 11 pm each night and we found that he was dry until then but still woke up wet in the morning.
Then, on Shabbos afternoon he was tired so he took a nap (doesn't usually) and, naturally, he had no diaper on. He slept for no less than about 3 hours, and the bed was perfectly dry afterwards. So, we decided that night, he would go to bed without a diaper and he decided, with encouragement, not to take the bottle of water to bed either. We woke him up twice in the night and took him to the toilet. He was so nervous that he wouldn't sleep for several hours and kept getting out of bed to go to the bathroom. Eventually, I realized he was nervous and told him that the only reason we are doing this is because we know he can do it and reminded him what had happened in the afternoon. Then he felt reassured and went to sleep. On the first night, at about 3 in the morning, he did wet the bed and was a bit traumatized, but then he was dry from then until the morning. The next night, he didn't make at the 3 am wake-up and was dry through the night. Tonight is the third night, and I think we will drop the 3 am wake-up.
So, our experience was that two things helped: 1. wanting to do it, and 2. not wearing a diaper. | So the desire is needed you are saying. Thats a good point.
Also, do you think that those wake ups in the middle of the night made a difference? Meaning you set your alarm to wake you in the middle of the night to take him to the bathroom? |
About the desire: it certainly helps, but if it isn't there, perhaps you could start to gently plant it, such as by asking him if he wants to do it. The main thing is that if he tends to get into power struggles with you and he thinks you want him to do it, there is the possibility that it will become a power struggle with him being forced to take the side of not wanting to do it, because you want it. (Disregard that if you know your son wouldn't be like that.)
Dh was still awake at 3 am each night. I did set my alarm, but he was awake anyway each time and he carried him to the bathroom. He didn't really wake up properly. The first time, he and already made before the wake up, so it was helpful to be there to change his sheets and pyjamas. The second night, in retrospect, I can say that it wasn't necessary. The 11 PM wake-ups - I think they do help, but I have a friend who just did it with a 3 yr old and didn't do any wake-ups. The difference was that she knew he could do it, whereas I wasn't sure. I think the best way you can help is by giving him your belief that he can do it, and since that belief wasn't quite there, we gave ourselves shorter chunks of time to believe that he could last. Now, we believe he can make it through the night, so we can leave him to do that.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:43 am Post subject: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:56 am Post subject: re: night time training - a few questions |
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I think wake-ups are necessary for the first night or two, especially if the kid sometimes has a full diaper by morning. You can start with 2-3 wake-ups and decrease / extend the intervals as necessary. Kids who sleep deeply will be harder to rouse, but are also sometims more likely to wet the bed. Those with smaller bladders or those who drink right before bed - it can be very hard for sensitive kids to fall asleep thirsty - will probably have to woken up and taken to the bathroom for longer than just a coupke of nights, but will eventually learn to go by themselves at night. Expecting them not to is unfair (remember your last trimester? imagine if someone expected you not to go the whole night?)
It helps to set things up for the kids to be able to go on their own right away, even if you're still taking them: leave the bathroom light on all night, have toilet paper within reach, step-stools available if necessary, pjs that the kid can take off and put back on all by themselves (no snaps or sleepers), etc. One night they might just surprise you!
Also - though your post seems to indicate that you do - reassure your kid that you believe in him, but won't get upset AT ALL if he has an accident. Really don't get upset, even though you have to change the sheets in the middle of the night.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:58 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| kalsee wrote: | | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders. |
This is true. And often it's chemical.
In my family, the age range for dry at night with underwear: 21 months to 7 years.
I found that pull-ups did not help at night. They were a confusing crutch that didn't feel different enough to discourage wetting.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:59 am Post subject: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| Get really good mattress protectors.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 5:59 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| amother wrote: | I think wake-ups are necessary for the first night or two, especially if the kid sometimes has a full diaper by morning. You can start with 2-3 wake-ups and decrease / extend the intervals as necessary. Kids who sleep deeply will be harder to rouse, but are also sometims more likely to wet the bed. Those with smaller bladders or those who drink right before bed - it can be very hard for sensitive kids to fall asleep thirsty - will probably have to woken up and taken to the bathroom for longer than just a coupke of nights, but will eventually learn to go by themselves at night. Expecting them not to is unfair (remember your last trimester? imagine if someone expected you not to go the whole night?)
It helps to set things up for the kids to be able to go on their own right away, even if you're still taking them: leave the bathroom light on all night, have toilet paper within reach, step-stools available if necessary, pjs that the kid can take off and put back on all by themselves (no snaps or sleepers), etc. One night they might just surprise you!
Also - though your post seems to indicate that you do - reassure your kid that you believe in him, but won't get upset AT ALL if he has an accident. Really don't get upset, even though you have to change the sheets in the middle of the night. | Thank you. All of this advice makes a lot of sense.
I just wanted to comment on what you wrote at the end, not to get upset about accidents. I dont, ever. There was one night where I forgot to put a diaper on my DC and that DC did not wake up all night and in the morning was wet and sticky and the bed had to be aired out. We talked about it and now its something funny already. I would never make it an issue to get upset about. Thank you.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:05 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| kalsee wrote: | | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders. |
Adults can be deep sleepers and pregnant women can have small bladders, effectively, but the pregnant women compensate by waking up during the night and the deep sleepers manage somehow, so I'm not sure that those reasons make sense.
I realized that I was so unsure how anyone avoids urinating in their sleep that I didn't know what to think about when my son was ready and how I would know and what advice to give him. I know that our bodies can do it somehow, but since it's a subconscious thing, I didn't know what to do to get that mechanism working. Now that my son has done this, I think the most helpful part of it might have been to have the experience of getting wet in the night and not liking it and the body somehow learned to meet his need to wait until he gets to the toilet. Some kids might have the control more easily and can do it straight away without any accidents, but for those who are "not ready" maybe the accidents are just part of the process and they help the child learn.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:19 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders.
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Adults can be deep sleepers and pregnant women can have small bladders, effectively, but the pregnant women compensate by waking up during the night and the deep sleepers manage somehow, so I'm not sure that those reasons make sense.
I realized that I was so unsure how anyone avoids urinating in their sleep that I didn't know what to think about when my son was ready and how I would know and what advice to give him. I know that our bodies can do it somehow, but since it's a subconscious thing, I didn't know what to do to get that mechanism working. Now that my son has done this, I think the most helpful part of it might have been to have the experience of getting wet in the night and not liking it and the body somehow learned to meet his need to wait until he gets to the toilet. Some kids might have the control more easily and can do it straight away without any accidents, but for those who are "not ready" maybe the accidents are just part of the process and they help the child learn.
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Keeping dry at night is part of a child's physical development. Some kids can do it with a bit of training (like your son) and some kids really can't do it yet at that age.
A child of 6-8 who still wets his bed at night does not want to do that. And it is quite common.
Speaking as someone who wet her bed nightly until the age of 7 with a mother who did not put on diapers on older children,did not give her drinks past supper, and woke her up to take her to the bathroom 1-2 every night.
I grew out of it b"h 
Last edited by kalsee on Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:23 am; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:22 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders. |
Adults can be deep sleepers and pregnant women can have small bladders, effectively, but the pregnant women compensate by waking up during the night and the deep sleepers manage somehow, so I'm not sure that those reasons make sense.
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Do you know that adults can sleep on beds much narrower than their regular bed size and still will never roll off accidently? Babies can't do that.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:30 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| kalsee wrote: | | EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders.
|
Adults can be deep sleepers and pregnant women can have small bladders, effectively, but the pregnant women compensate by waking up during the night and the deep sleepers manage somehow, so I'm not sure that those reasons make sense.
I realized that I was so unsure how anyone avoids urinating in their sleep that I didn't know what to think about when my son was ready and how I would know and what advice to give him. I know that our bodies can do it somehow, but since it's a subconscious thing, I didn't know what to do to get that mechanism working. Now that my son has done this, I think the most helpful part of it might have been to have the experience of getting wet in the night and not liking it and the body somehow learned to meet his need to wait until he gets to the toilet. Some kids might have the control more easily and can do it straight away without any accidents, but for those who are "not ready" maybe the accidents are just part of the process and they help the child learn.
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Keeping dry at night is part of a child's physical development. Some kids can do it with a bit of training (like your son) and some kids really can't do it yet at that age.
A child of 6-8 who still wets his bed at night does not want to do that. And it is quite common.
Speaking as someone who wet her bed nightly until the age of 7 with a mother who did not put on diapers on older children,did not give her drinks past supper, and woke her up to take her to the bathroom 1-2 every night.
I grew out of it b"h  |
I'm not saying everyone is ready at any particular age. I don't know about that. I am just questioning the specific reasons you gave - deep sleep and bladder size. Those, in themselves, don't seem to be obstacles to learning.
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:33 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| kalsee wrote: | | EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders. |
Adults can be deep sleepers and pregnant women can have small bladders, effectively, but the pregnant women compensate by waking up during the night and the deep sleepers manage somehow, so I'm not sure that those reasons make sense.
|
Do you know that adults can sleep on beds much narrower than their regular bed size and still will never roll off accidently? Babies can't do that. |
I am not saying "adults can go through the night without wetting their bed, therefore kids can." I am saying "some people who have already learned not to wet their beds have done so despite sleeping deeply and can still do it when their bladders are squashed by other organs."
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:38 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | | EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders. |
Adults can be deep sleepers and pregnant women can have small bladders, effectively, but the pregnant women compensate by waking up during the night and the deep sleepers manage somehow, so I'm not sure that those reasons make sense.
|
Do you know that adults can sleep on beds much narrower than their regular bed size and still will never roll off accidently? Babies can't do that. |
I am not saying "adults can go through the night without wetting their bed, therefore kids can." I am saying "some people who have already learned not to wet their beds have done so despite sleeping deeply and can still do it when their bladders are squashed by other organs." |
only because they had previously trained their bodies to be aware of their bladder even while sleeping.
Children who are deep sleepers have not learned that yet and it cannot always be learned at age 3 or 4. some kids need more time, their body needs to mature more.
I'm not sure what the arguement is.
Are you saying that is not the deep sleep that is causing them to not wake up for the bathroom, rather it is something else? what is it?
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Posted: Mon, Feb 20 2012, 6:45 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| kalsee wrote: | | EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | | EvenI wrote: | | kalsee wrote: | | Some kids are not ready yet at that age even if they want to be. They might be deep sleepers, and/or have small bladders. |
Adults can be deep sleepers and pregnant women can have small bladders, effectively, but the pregnant women compensate by waking up during the night and the deep sleepers manage somehow, so I'm not sure that those reasons make sense.
|
Do you know that adults can sleep on beds much narrower than their regular bed size and still will never roll off accidently? Babies can't do that. |
I am not saying "adults can go through the night without wetting their bed, therefore kids can." I am saying "some people who have already learned not to wet their beds have done so despite sleeping deeply and can still do it when their bladders are squashed by other organs." |
only because they had previously trained their bodies to be aware of their bladder even while sleeping.
Children who are deep sleepers have not learned that yet and it cannot always be learned at age 3 or 4. some kids need more time, their body needs to mature more.
I'm not sure what the arguement is.
Are you saying that is not the deep sleep that is causing them to not wake up for the bathroom, rather it is something else? what is it? |
I am just saying that if the problem were that they sleep too deeply, you would have to say "sorry, you are going to be in diapers your whole life unless you start sleeping lighter" but we know that we don't have to say that because deep sleepers do also learn not to wet their beds. I know next to nothing about this - I am just responding with what seems like logic to what you are saying. Perhaps you are saying that for deeper sleepers, being older aids the learning process somehow. I don't know what about being older helps, but I could hear that that could be true.
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Posted: Tue, Feb 21 2012, 3:07 am Post subject: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| I found that the children who toilet trained with fewer accidents also are ready for no diaper at night earlier. one child just had a really hard time with training, and had frequent accidents. this child could not wake up dry no matter what we tried, no drinking, waking up in middle of the night, etc. another child toilet trained early, had very few accidents, and stopped wearing a diaper for sleeping a few months after toilet training.
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Posted: Tue, Feb 21 2012, 3:11 am Post subject: Re: re: night time training - a few questions |
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| black sheep wrote: | | I found that the children who toilet trained with fewer accidents also are ready for no diaper at night earlier. one child just had a really hard time with training, and had frequent accidents. this child could not wake up dry no matter what we tried, no drinking, waking up in middle of the night, etc. another child toilet trained early, had very few accidents, and stopped wearing a diaper for sleeping a few months after toilet training. | Interesting. My child was toilet trained a bit before the age of 3 so this may be a good way to see.
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