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| OutATowner |
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 Posted: Tue, Feb 07 2012, 3:54 pm Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| Peanut- now I'm really confused. Would you attribute that to good fortune? A mistake on their part? Or if you go in on your US pp then they just don't ask you?
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| mizle10 |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 07 2012, 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| Peanut2 wrote: | I have to say this:
israeli citizens must, by law, go into and out of Israel on an Israeli passport.
If you use your American passport, there is no "they will let you in but they won't let you out." That doesn't make any sense. Has this happened to anyone?
If you go on your American passport, you're doing something wrong. Since it's Israel and not America, they will use their seichel in deciding whether to make a bug fuss over it if they "catch you." But if you go in and out on an American passport they have no way of knowing that you are also an Israeli citizen.
I went in and out on my American. if they wanted to pay attention on the way out of Israel they would have noticed that I speak Hebrew a bit too well.
My sister's Israeli passport expired while she was in Israel and she didn't notice it until she was on the way to the airport. Unlike me, she actually told them about it and they let her though. Israelis are pretty relaxed and flexible. Can you imagine an American immigration official letting you through without your valid American passport?
Oh, and getting a new passport abroad can be a huge hassle because Israel requires you to state whether you are married or not. If you are now married, they have a crazy procedure to prove you are married. You can't just send in your marriage certificate, like with an american passport. and in america you just need to do that for a name change, with Israel it's so even if you don't want to change your name. Adding kids is another issue, though I didn't look into it. So it can be a hassle for some.
But yes, if you don't foresee any issues, contact the consulate. They are cheaper and quicker than the folks that produce american passports. |
Yes, it's happened to me. Apperantly when Israel became as state they were so desperate for citizens, they made the laws crazy. Someone in the consulate actually told me this. My grandmother made aliya, so my mother has a TZ and I'm considered 3rd gen Israeli. It's more lenient (ex, you can request permision to get a student visa) but they're still crazy about citizenship over here. It's really worth knowing your facts before you start with the passports and TZs.
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| rainbow dash |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 07 2012, 4:11 pm Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| Liba I mean that I dont see the reason to keep my isreali pp cause I made aliya in 97 and used up all my rights. I used the word free stuff cause I couldnt remember the right word. plus its too much hassle to go every year to another city and too much money to get it renewed once a yr.
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| Marion |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 2:16 am Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| rainbow dash wrote: | | Liba I mean that I dont see the reason to keep my isreali pp cause I made aliya in 97 and used up all my rights. I used the word free stuff cause I couldnt remember the right word. plus its too much hassle to go every year to another city and too much money to get it renewed once a yr. |
You keep up your Israeli passport because it's the LAW that you need to enter/exit the country on your Israeli passport. End of story. DH hasn't been to the UK in 10 years because his passport expired and we don't have the 200+pounds sterling to get him a new one.
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| hila |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 4:03 am Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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Your dh can go in to the UK on his Israeli passport.
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| YESHASettler |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 4:10 am Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| rainbow dash wrote: | | Liba I mean that I dont see the reason to keep my isreali pp cause I made aliya in 97 and used up all my rights. I used the word free stuff cause I couldnt remember the right word. plus its too much hassle to go every year to another city and too much money to get it renewed once a yr. |
What in the world are you going on about? Your passport is good for 10 years and you do it at your local Misrad Hapnim.
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| DrMom |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 4:12 am Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| hila wrote: | | Your dh can go in to the UK on his Israeli passport. |
Not if he's a citizen of the UK (is he?). Then he needs a valid UK passport. Can't afford one? Don't go to the UK until you can. Otherwise you are breaking the law.
Same with an Israeli citizen entering Israel.
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| Marion |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 4:21 am Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| hila wrote: | | Your dh can go in to the UK on his Israeli passport. |
That's not what he was told last time he went! The guy at immigration was furious with him...he had a valid U.S. passport and his expired UK passport and his accent (or not) gave him away. He said he got a long lecture from the guy about not trying to do it again.
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| Marion |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 4:22 am Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| YESHASettler wrote: | | rainbow dash wrote: | | Liba I mean that I dont see the reason to keep my isreali pp cause I made aliya in 97 and used up all my rights. I used the word free stuff cause I couldnt remember the right word. plus its too much hassle to go every year to another city and too much money to get it renewed once a yr. |
What in the world are you going on about? Your passport is good for 10 years and you do it at your local Misrad Hapnim. |
She made yerida...she has to go the consulate, and it sounds like it's not so local. Still, the passport IS good for 5 years!
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| merelyme |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 4:33 am Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| mizle10 wrote: | | Apperantly when Israel became as state they were so desperate for citizens, they made the laws crazy. Someone in the consulate actually told me this. My grandmother made aliya, so my mother has a TZ and I'm considered 3rd gen Israeli. It's more lenient (ex, you can request permision to get a student visa) but they're still crazy about citizenship over here. It's really worth knowing your facts before you start with the passports and TZs. |
Actually, I believe the reasoning was the opposite. So many of the people in Israel in 1948 had been through so much, and seen so many people who had nowhere to escape to, that they never wanted any Jews to be in that situation again. So they drafted the Law of Return, granting citizenship (yes, it's a privilege) to anyone Jewish and descendants of citizens.
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| Liba |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 5:48 am Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| rainbow dash wrote: | | Liba I mean that I dont see the reason to keep my isreali pp cause I made aliya in 97 and used up all my rights. I used the word free stuff cause I couldnt remember the right word. plus its too much hassle to go every year to another city and too much money to get it renewed once a yr. |
You shouldn't have to go annually. That doesn't make sense.
The way you wrote it it sounds like you took what the government had to offer and since they aren't giving you things for free you don't feel the need to follow their laws. You accepted the laws when you made aliya and accepted their free stuff. It was a two way contract between you and the country of Israel. If you back out on your part now you should be returning all of the free stuff they gave you.
A passport is good for 10 years if you are over the age of 18 and costs 270nis, $72. If you can't afford $72 for a passport once every 10 years how can you afford to fly?
I can see how someone can be from the second or third generation after a person who made aliya, never lived in E"Y and now wants to know if there is a way around the law, but for someone who made aliya, took tens of thousands of shekel from the government, this seems a real slap in the face.
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| rainbow dash |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 9:13 am Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| lipa I see your point. I spoke to the isreali embassy here in brussels and if I want to renew my pp for ten yrs or to disown my citizenship I still have to right my kids down. for 1 yr not. I want to do this cause I feel that it is causing more problems for me and my kids cause of the thing with the idf. now, I havent called the embasy yet but I want to find out about the idf thing. And yes I do have to renew it every year if I dont do a 10 yr stint. the money is not the issue here the issue for us is that with other isrealis who has exprincened this at the customs is that they make problems at customs with the kids.its just to much hassel. and no I am not grab the money and run. I made aliya at 17 by myself and I had no need for the rental assistance or the other stuff; all I got was my passport.
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| rainbow dash |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 9:14 am Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| sorry I meant liba
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| Peanut2 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| OutATowner wrote: | | Peanut- now I'm really confused. Would you attribute that to good fortune? A mistake on their part? Or if you go in on your US pp then they just don't ask you? |
I attribute it to knowing exactly what I was doing and not asking she'elot kitback. The people I was talking to knew exactly what was going on but weren't going to ask anything either.
There are two different issues here:
1. seminary girls who are Israeli citizens and pretended they weren't, or didn't know they were. They went in on their American passports, and when getting out of Israel were asked for a ptur from the army, which they didn't have, as well as their Israeli passports. Hence the "you can get in but not out" fallacy.
2. Going in with the wrong passport, knowingly, which you aren't allowed to do. I needed to do it, and thankfully Israelis are reasonable and I was okay with "getting caught". But do it at your own risk. If you don't know what a she'elat kitbeck is, forget about it.
For example, with the previous poster who isn't going to England because her husband's passport expired. I'd just go in with my other passport and try to avoid talking to anyone. If I had to. I'd never do it in America, though, because American immigration won't bend the rules to save a person from dying, let alone something like this.
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| mizle10 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| Peanut2 wrote: | | OutATowner wrote: | | Peanut- now I'm really confused. Would you attribute that to good fortune? A mistake on their part? Or if you go in on your US pp then they just don't ask you? |
I attribute it to knowing exactly what I was doing and not asking she'elot kitback. The people I was talking to knew exactly what was going on but weren't going to ask anything either.
There are two different issues here:
1. seminary girls who are Israeli citizens and pretended they weren't, or didn't know they were. They went in on their American passports, and when getting out of Israel were asked for a ptur from the army, which they didn't have, as well as their Israeli passports. Hence the "you can get in but not out" fallacy.
2. Going in with the wrong passport, knowingly, which you aren't allowed to do. I needed to do it, and thankfully Israelis are reasonable and I was okay with "getting caught". But do it at your own risk. If you don't know what a she'elat kitbeck is, forget about it.
For example, with the previous poster who isn't going to England because her husband's passport expired. I'd just go in with my other passport and try to avoid talking to anyone. If I had to. I'd never do it in America, though, because American immigration won't bend the rules to save a person from dying, let alone something like this. |
This was NOT my experience. I cannot even begin to tell you the insane problems they gave me. Totally totally unreasonable.
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| mizle10 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| Peanut2 wrote: | | OutATowner wrote: | | Peanut- now I'm really confused. Would you attribute that to good fortune? A mistake on their part? Or if you go in on your US pp then they just don't ask you? |
I attribute it to knowing exactly what I was doing and not asking she'elot kitback. The people I was talking to knew exactly what was going on but weren't going to ask anything either.
There are two different issues here:
1. seminary girls who are Israeli citizens and pretended they weren't, or didn't know they were. They went in on their American passports, and when getting out of Israel were asked for a ptur from the army, which they didn't have, as well as their Israeli passports. Hence the "you can get in but not out" fallacy.
2. Going in with the wrong passport, knowingly, which you aren't allowed to do. I needed to do it, and thankfully Israelis are reasonable and I was okay with "getting caught". But do it at your own risk. If you don't know what a she'elat kitbeck is, forget about it.
For example, with the previous poster who isn't going to England because her husband's passport expired. I'd just go in with my other passport and try to avoid talking to anyone. If I had to. I'd never do it in America, though, because American immigration won't bend the rules to save a person from dying, let alone something like this. |
Wether it's legal or not, it's possible to get in with an american passport. It's also possible to leave with one (if you x have a TZ). The problems come up when you stay for over three months, but can't get a visa because you're a citizen. You come to passport control, they see you overstayed as a tourist and look into why you don't have a visa. I've come for vacation in and out in a week with a canadian passport without a problem.
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| nylon |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| Marion wrote: | | hila wrote: | | Your dh can go in to the UK on his Israeli passport. |
That's not what he was told last time he went! The guy at immigration was furious with him...he had a valid U.S. passport and his expired UK passport and his accent (or not) gave him away. He said he got a long lecture from the guy about not trying to do it again. |
This is veering way off topic, but there appears to be confusion about this in the UK government itself! I was told by a consular official that it's not illegal to enter the UK on your foreign passport as long as you are not taking up residency, and I know from people who were naturalized overseas that they were told the same. DD's passport got mislaid before our last trip back (hence the call to the embassy). DH and I entered on our UK passports, they let DD in on her American one. The one that says she was born in London. The UKBA agent told us it was okay.
Another source I read said it's okay if you're coming in on Visa Waiver, but you won't get a tourist visa if you're a citizen.
And yes, the cost of British passports these days is outrageous.
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| drumjj |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 3:01 pm Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| my daughter also went in and out of the uk on her israeli passport because her english one had expired and we hadnt noticed. they didnt make a fuss at all.
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| drumjj |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 3:03 pm Post subject: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| saying that every single time I go to israel I end up sitting in the misrad hapanim and renewing my passport, because they wont give me a proper passport so I have a stupid teudat ma'avar, and it expires every two years or something, its such a waste of time. I always go in with it expired and they jsut say u have to make sure u have a new one before you leave, and they always have to do in on the spot or next day as im never there for more than 3 days usually
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| DrMom |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 08 2012, 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: re: Do we need Israeli passports? |
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| drumjj wrote: | | saying that every single time I go to israel I end up sitting in the misrad hapanim and renewing my passport, because they wont give me a proper passport so I have a stupid teudat ma'avar, and it expires every two years or something, its such a waste of time. I always go in with it expired and they jsut say u have to make sure u have a new one before you leave, and they always have to do in on the spot or next day as im never there for more than 3 days usually |
What's a teudat ma'avar? Why won't they give you a proper passport? Are you a citizen?
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