Dont know what he was thinking!

Posted: Thu, Aug 18 2011, 6:46 pm Post subject: Dont know what he was thinking!

We have an open door policy on guests during the week and on Shabbos. A lot of people have opened the doors of yiddishkeit b"H through our Shabbos table, a nd others just make the decision to take on a Jewish spouse, which is great in my eyes also.

We have a guy who is GREAT..nice, sweet, etc. He every so often brings a girl he is dating with him. While he doesnt want to be frum, he does enjoy th eShabbos table and wants a Jewish wife.

Or so we thought. He hadnt been by us in months, and he showed up on Friday night with a girl named Sarah, who was dressed tznius. I was really impressed. She was really nice and had a great personality. When I asked him about her, he said "I am not interested in dating her"...fine, Id idnt push it.

He showed up with her on Tues night, and we were talking about yiddishkeit, etc...TURNS OUT SHE ISNT JEWISH. AND HE KNEW. Like, no claim to yiddishkeit at all.

Im really angry...if he was looking for a free meal, thats one thing. But to bring a nonjew, THAT HE KNEW WASNT JEWISH, that gets my goat....Should we say something? DH is equally as hurt...but DH is roaring mad, and I know if he says something, he could turn this guy off of yiddishkeit forever...

Gold Member Joined: May 27 2010 Posts: 2142

Im sorry but as a bt from a very assim family you clearly have no clue what the challemges out there are.
For one its a beautiful kiddush hashem if you can be pleasant to non jews proving she is respectful.
For 2, any chabad shliach will tell you there are a 100 stories where he became frum and dropped the shicksa or she converted. Be patient Smile

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7950

I obviously don't know the full picture, but I don't really understand why you feel angry to that extent. You can gently mention to him that you prefer he brings Jewish friends only, but I think he just doesn't see the difference to you. He most likely was trying to show her what Judaism is about so she can have an appreciation for his dedication to remaining within the nation.

depressed, im a bt and a shliach,...I get non jews all the time, just not a jewish guy whop is a semi regulsr in my home trying to hide one...

he did know better, thats my thing...we are angry bc if he was honest we would have said no. I dont like nonjews at my shabbos table...if she had questions during the week would be better...he knows that, hes been in our house for 2 yrs now!!! I dont like the outright sneakiness behind it...

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7950

So you have non Jews all the time, but you would have said no because you don't like them at the shabbos table? Does he know your rule? I imagine its confusing if you allow it sometimes.

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 8180

Wow... this is so incredibly hurtful.

I'm so glad the people I met on my journey to Judaism weren't like you. They invited me for shabbat and holidays, knowing I wasn't Jewish at the time.
_________________
But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you
And loved the sorrows of your changing face.

Gold Member Joined: Oct 26 2008 Posts: 1295

Executive Member Joined: Jul 17 2006 Posts: 338

I think the reason she is upset is she feels tricked.
the first time he came with the girl he should have informed you she isn't jewish. instead he lead you to believe she is and that is dishonest.

Platinum Member Joined: May 07 2008 Posts: 8984

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7950

I grew up in a home with an open door policy. No one ever asked if a guest was Jewish, and no one really cared; the goal was to make a kiddush Hashem and ensure that everyone had a positive experience. We didn't use non-mevushal wine at all, ever. Some people were interested in learning about Judaism as potential converts. Some people were interested in learning about Judaism as family members or friends of Jews or those who were in the process of converting. Some people had some Jewish ancestors, although they weren't Jewish themselves. And some people were actively in the conversion process.

I'm not sure people who are so opposed to having Shabbos guests who are not Jewish are in the right profession by choosing to be shluchim- unless an adam gadol has given you this particular guideline. I don't really understand the rationale behind it.

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 8180

Er, no. Wrong way round. The *reason* I became interested in Judaism was because of what I saw in Orthodox people's homes, at their shabbat tables.

Obviously I had some connection to Judaism from the beginning, but so might this girl.

Also, everything MBV said.

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 25 2007 Posts: 4915

I'm not sure why this would make anyone who has an open door policy particularly angry. There are plenty people who think they are Jewish and would answer affirmatively if asked, yet are not halachically Jewish.

While the OP seems to think that this was a deliberate act of deception by her regular guest, I suspect that he didn't think it would be such a big deal. Such a concept is probably so removed from his day-to-day world that it just doesn't register. It sounds like the young woman was appropriate and respectful, so perhaps this should just be seen as a opportunity to make a kiddush Hashem.

Tell the regular guest very explicitly that you prefer he only bring Jewish guests from now on or at least let you know the circumstances in advance. If you've explicitly told him this in the past, remind him. Emphasize that you are happy to meet his friends, but that Shabbos meals are not just a social event. They have religious significance, and all those who participate need to understand that.

Silver Member Joined: Mar 17 2011 Posts: 562

OP,
I don't know the whole story but there isn't anything that you said that makes me think he wanted to trick you.
Perhaps you can ask a shaila about the potential situation of having non-Jews at your Shabbos table and exactly how proactive you need to be to avoid that. If you are told that it's mutar and it still makes you and DH uncomfortable, it's your prerogative to gently insist that your Shabbos table is open to people who are obligated in the mitzvah of shmiras Shabbos.

Gold Member Joined: May 27 2010 Posts: 2142

Platinum Member Joined: May 07 2008 Posts: 8984

OP here....
First of all, for those who judged me and said I was being rude, and that what if she wanted to convert? WE ARE NOT INTERESTED in talking to people WHO WANT TO CONVERT. We are there for Jews interested in Judaisim. If you are going through the conversion process, th ats different. Im also not interested in a relationship where the person is converting for marriage, there are shailos on that also sometimes. There are special rabbonim for that. And what if I had nonmevushal wine on the table? Im not complaining about the guest herself, she was a very very nice girl. Im complaining about the person who brought her, bc when she told DH she wasnt Jewish, he looked like he was about to fall into the floor. If he wanted to bring her, and asked, we proably would have said fine. But I really dont like the fact that I had a nonjew at my Shabbos table. Its NOT the place of a nonjew, especially one who isnt going through the conversion process. There are HALACHAS my friends, about not breaking bread with non jews. Ask your LORS...

Secondly, I dont like the deciet. It wasnt the girl herself, it was the fact that this guy didnt outright tell me in some quiet manner when he came in. We would never have been rude or thrown her out....G-d forbid. But a little heads up wold have been apprecuated.

Gold Member Joined: May 27 2010 Posts: 2142

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7950

Is that the guidance you were given, or is that your personal feelings on the matter? I can't say its very mainstream for someone in kiruv to have that attitude.