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| S.Shcwartz |
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 Posted: Fri, Jul 15 2011, 9:05 am Post subject: re: Should a mentally unstable person be held accountable? |
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| Y'know I'm way too fed up with everything in this world being blamed on 'insanity'... or mental illness. "I'm not myself cuz I suffer from OCD, or BPD, or ADD"... or arrange any other alphabetical combination. You cannot go around hurting pple no matter to what degree basing your reasons on insanity. EVERY person is responsible for their actions and will pay the price, NO MATTER WHAT. That is their nisayon in life. Face it. Deal with it. And stop chopping up beautiful nine yr olds off the street.
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| morah |
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 15 2011, 9:35 am Post subject: re: Should a mentally unstable person be held accountable? |
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HindaRochel- Bad news: New York does not have the death penalty, so he cannot be executed. It's not fair, but unfortunately this happened in NY and not Florida or Texas.
I'm not worried about him getting off because of his obvious mental instability- there's a lot of hype about insanity pleas, but they very, very rarely work for a number of reasons: since John Hinckley, Americans tend to be very skeptical of insanity pleas to begin with; the other reason is that legal insanity is tough to prove. You have to prove that the person was so crazy they actually did not know that what they did was wrong. Clearly this guy is nuts- he smothered and then butchered a child, no sane person would do that- but if he knew what he did was wrong (and it seems based on his confession that he did), then LEGALLY he is NOT insane, even though CLINICALLY he is.
And remember, people who do get off for insanity don't really get off. They go to a highly secure mental institution, and they go for an indeterminate length of time. Whereas with prison, they can be sentenced for a set number of years and possibly be up for parole at some point (meaning, they could get out), those sentenced to commitment have no length of time, they will stay there until they are deemed fit to leave, which is often never.
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| Isramom8 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 15 2011, 9:41 am Post subject: Re: re: Should a mentally unstable person be held accountabl |
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| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | Isramom8 wrote: | | This is what bothers me. If he was so unstable as to be unable to function in normal society, he should have lived behind the bars of an institution before this happened. How can we identify these people, and how can we make them live behind bars before they do harm? | But I think that that is the problem Isramom8. A mental illness, many times, can be masked very very well. I know people who are mentally ill, and if you did not know the person personally you would have no idea that they were mentally ill.
Also, not all mentally ill people know they are mentally ill and not all mentally ill people seek help, so with those two facts, how would anyone know to help them or put them away so that they dont harm someone? Its not always possible. |
We had a break in once, and I suggested to police to check out the group home down the block. They refused, beacsue these people have a right to live there, and nothing particularly pointed at anyone there. I said well, obviously they're not "all there". The officer answered, "Do you know how many crazy people are living in regular homes all over every city?"
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| Merrymom |
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 15 2011, 12:02 pm Post subject: re: Should a mentally unstable person be held accountable? |
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I don't think l.a. deserves an ounce of pity. There's no way he didn't know what he was doing. He hid the body remember? Not to mention he expressed his version of remorse. The voices are an attempt to get him off but it won't work.
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| apple24 |
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| Posted: Sat, Jul 16 2011, 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Should a mentally unstable person be held accountable? |
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| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | c.c.cookie wrote: | Let's assume the guy's crazy, mentally unstable, insane - whatever you want to call it. Does that mean he can get away with a crime of this magnitude? Shouldn't he be held accountable no matter what his mental state?
What's the halachic take on this? Is a "shoteh" allowed to do whatever he wants, without sufferring any consequences? | Yes, I think that no matter what someone's mental status is they have to be held accountable for what they are/did do.
Unfortunately my family was friends with a man who killed his two children.The details do not really matter here, but he was an unstable guy. He told us all openly that he was on many different medications.
Does that mean that he should not be accountable for the murder of his children? I think not. In the end he died of cancer in jail, but if that would not have happened, I would have thought that a full length trial and guilty verdict would have been very just.
Everyone should be held accountable for what they do, no matter the mental status. |
Shabbat, I know who you are talking about... from Teaneck, right? It was so traumatizing when it happened. My parents were reallu nice to to him, he even ate Seder at our house. It was a HUGE shock when he murdered his kids.
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| shabbatiscoming |
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| Posted: Sun, Jul 17 2011, 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Should a mentally unstable person be held accountable? |
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| apple24 wrote: | | shabbatiscoming wrote: | | c.c.cookie wrote: | Let's assume the guy's crazy, mentally unstable, insane - whatever you want to call it. Does that mean he can get away with a crime of this magnitude? Shouldn't he be held accountable no matter what his mental state?
What's the halachic take on this? Is a "shoteh" allowed to do whatever he wants, without sufferring any consequences? | Yes, I think that no matter what someone's mental status is they have to be held accountable for what they are/did do.
Unfortunately my family was friends with a man who killed his two children.The details do not really matter here, but he was an unstable guy. He told us all openly that he was on many different medications.
Does that mean that he should not be accountable for the murder of his children? I think not. In the end he died of cancer in jail, but if that would not have happened, I would have thought that a full length trial and guilty verdict would have been very just.
Everyone should be held accountable for what they do, no matter the mental status. |
Shabbat, I know who you are talking about... from Teaneck, right? It was so traumatizing when it happened. My parents were reallu nice to to him, he even ate Seder at our house. It was a HUGE shock when he murdered his kids. | Yes, I am sure we are talking about the same person. Does this mean that you also grew up in Teaneck? maybe we know each other? He ate at our house, with his two lovely little children many friday night meals. I remember hearing the news in the car on the way to brooklyn and I saw my mother's face and it was put and utter shock and disbelief. It was a very big shock.
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