 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
| yummymummy |
0 likes
|
Diamond Member
Joined: Mar 08 2010
Posts: 2534
|
 Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 9:37 pm Post subject: |
| |
| chocolate moose wrote: | | yummymummy wrote: | | Halachically if they are responsible to pay, I don't think "we don't have an extra $250" would be an acceptable excuse. |
I've had ppl break things, I've had landlords ruin our stuff; we've had all kinds of things happen to us over the years.
Of course the bottom line is that they know they have to pay; yet don't make it a priority.
| yummymummy wrote: | | Of course I'm not sure OP would want to schlep them to a beis din to get a judgment against them and even then I'm not sure how a beis din would force them to pay. |
Right. It becomes tiresome when someone is standing over you with a wad of bills, saying, I need this for the groceries and this for Chanale's shoes and this for the car payment; trying to figure out where they can squeeze you into the equation. |
I hear ya, plus factor in the beis din fee
_________________
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less - Timothy Keller
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Blueberry Muffin |
0 likes
|
Silver Member
Joined: Dec 02 2009
Posts: 979
|
| Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| Depressed wrote: | This isnt psak obviously, because you need to speak to both parties, in person and hear all the details..
But my husband said just to 'talk in learning', it sounds like you left your property in a rshus harabim (public area), bshas hezik hazeika.. In other words you know the children are playing , there and there is an extreme likelihood of damage..... |
I do not believe that is reshus harabim -
Many shuls have a specific area designated for the many strollers that are brought to shul. They do not allow the strollers into shul - as there is no space for them.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| shmoozer |
0 likes
|
Silver Member
Joined: Dec 19 2005
Posts: 685
Location: dunno
|
| Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 10:16 pm Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| did u or your husband actually see her in the stroller or did someone just tell you she was in there?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| goodmorning |
0 likes
|
Silver Member
Joined: Apr 14 2010
Posts: 712
|
| Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 10:19 pm Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| The recommendation to speak to the rav of the shul is a good one; however, it's possible that he may then [b]not[\b] be able to get involved in speaking to the parents. If he's acting as a dayan, it's assur for him to hear one side of the story without the other side being present, so if he hears the story from you, then even if he agrees with you, it's possible (I'm not sure of all the relevant halachos) that he may be unable to be the one to deal with the other side.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| shlomitsmum |
0 likes
|
Diamond Member
Joined: Aug 22 2006
Age: 36
Posts: 3692
Location: TO
|
| Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| amother wrote: | On shabbos in our shul everyone parks their strollers in a certain area outside. This past week, I noticed on the way home that our stroller wasn't pushing normally. It was rocking back and forth, the handlebars were not aligned, the seat was crooked, and one of the wheels is stuck. My husband told me that he walked outside for a minute and saw a certain heavyweight 12 year old girl sitting in it. He obviously told her to get up. This was early. Much much later, someone came and told him the same girl is sitting in our stroller again. We tried everything to fix it ourselves. I emailed the company to see if they will repair or replace it. In the event that they don't, my husband wants to go to the girls parents and ask them to pay for a new stroller.
WWYD? How would you react if you were the girls parents?
I am asking because I don't want tp start a fight or create bad feelings. But its an expensive stroller and totally unusable at this point. |
IMO she was warned and did it again your DH saw her ,and other people saw her too ,you got whitnesses ....I think you should ask the parents and explain what happened , If it was my kid I would pay .
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| yummymummy |
0 likes
|
Diamond Member
Joined: Mar 08 2010
Posts: 2534
|
| Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| goodmorning wrote: | | The recommendation to speak to the rav of the shul is a good one; however, it's possible that he may then [b]not[\b] be able to get involved in speaking to the parents. If he's acting as a dayan, it's assur for him to hear one side of the story without the other side being present, so if he hears the story from you, then even if he agrees with you, it's possible (I'm not sure of all the relevant halachos) that he may be unable to be the one to deal with the other side. |
If the rav is acting as a dayan then doesn't he davka have a responsibility to speak to the other side to get all the facts before issuing a psak?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| mammala120 |
0 likes
|
Silver Member
Joined: Nov 20 2007
Posts: 802
|
| Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 11:21 pm Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| girl's fault, parents are responsible. and if they can't efford to pay, then they need to collect the funds/tzedaka or finance the new stroller for you. that is my opinion. sorry.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Merrymom |
0 likes
|
Platinum Member
Joined: May 11 2009
Posts: 9083
Location: Monsey, NY
|
| Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 11:58 pm Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
You can't prove that this girl broke the stroller. For all you know some kids figured if a big kid can sit in the stroller then so can we, and they were the ones that actually broke it. Just because the stroller is in an area that is used for strollers doesn't mean that anyone has an achrayus to it. You are taking a chance by parking it there. Of course if you feel that strongly about it you can get a Rav involved but I wouldn't. I would speak directly to the girl and ask her what happened to the stroller since it's not working now. She may freely admit to what happened and in that case maybe you can work something out with her parents. That to me would be the best case scenario. I personally think you should just learn a lesson from this about what to do or not do in the future.
_________________
Let your fellow's honor be as dear to you as your own and do not anger easily (Pirkei Avos/t)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Depressed |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: May 27 2010
Posts: 2142
|
| Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 12:55 am Post subject: Re: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| mammala120 wrote: | | girl's fault, parents are responsible. and if they can't efford to pay, then they need to collect the funds/tzedaka or finance the new stroller for you. that is my opinion. sorry. |
Would you care to cite a source you base this ruling on. The girl wasnt mcavin lmazik, she didnt intentionally take a hammer and give the carriage a zetz..
Its like the case of Papa ben Abba (an enormously huge Amorra) sitting on the bench and breaking it. At best you are entitled to half the damage in a pshera...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| shlomitsmum |
0 likes
|
Diamond Member
Joined: Aug 22 2006
Age: 36
Posts: 3692
Location: TO
|
| Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 1:12 am Post subject: Re: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| Merrymom wrote: | | You can't prove that this girl broke the stroller. For all you know some kids figured if a big kid can sit in the stroller then so can we, and they were the ones that actually broke it. Just because the stroller is in an area that is used for strollers doesn't mean that anyone has an achrayus to it. You are taking a chance by parking it there. Of course if you feel that strongly about it you can get a Rav involved but I wouldn't. I would speak directly to the girl and ask her what happened to the stroller since it's not working now. She may freely admit to what happened and in that case maybe you can work something out with her parents. That to me would be the best case scenario. I personally think you should just learn a lesson from this about what to do or not do in the future. |
OP's DH saw the girl sitting on the stroller and told her off ,the girl then did it again (chutzpah) according to others who saw her too .
She is a big kid who at 12 knows right from wrong ....IMO and the honorable thing to do is for her parents to pay up. She choose to sit on OP's property instead of her siblings stroller. I think OP and DH need to have a chat with the parents and explain what went on and not confront a child , that will likely make the parents MORE defensive and less likely to do the right thing.
I learned that damaging something is like stealing it but do not remember the source ..does anyone know it ??
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| sneakermom |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: Mar 04 2009
Posts: 2236
|
| Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 2:19 am Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
I would be very upset if this happened to me. But I'm not sure I would ask to be paid for the damages. It makes a whole machlokes. I might approach the mother of the girl and simply relate the story and just say, that I thought she might want to know....and if she offers to pay for it then shalom al yisroel.
But think to the future how will you and this woman feel about each other after all this? The mother might feel resentful etc. This needs to be handled with a lot of tact and no accusations.
True the price of the carriage is nothing to sneeze at. And it's extremely disappointing to come out of shul to a completely damaged carriage. Most of all it's unnerving knowing the child was told not to do it...and did it anyway. But the whole thing can blow out of proportion if not properly handled, with people fighting on all sides and you not getting paid back as well.
Weigh your options, handle this with great tact, and don't forget that Hashem caused this all to happen. And this girl will grow up one day, mature, and maybe even somehow in the big scheme of things return her debt to you by some sort of favor....who knows. Life takes interesting twists and turns.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| yummymummy |
0 likes
|
Diamond Member
Joined: Mar 08 2010
Posts: 2534
|
| Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| Depressed wrote: | | mammala120 wrote: | | girl's fault, parents are responsible. and if they can't efford to pay, then they need to collect the funds/tzedaka or finance the new stroller for you. that is my opinion. sorry. |
Would you care to cite a source you base this ruling on. The girl wasnt mcavin lmazik, she didnt intentionally take a hammer and give the carriage a zetz..
Its like the case of Papa ben Abba (an enormously huge Amorra) sitting on the bench and breaking it. At best you are entitled to half the damage in a pshera... |
are you referring to the gemara in Bava Kama?
Based on that gemara I think the girl would be held liable:
"The Rashbam explains that a bench is made available for use under normal circumstances. Since an average bench is not made for someone like Papa bar Aba, by sitting on it he is misusing the bench and will be held responsible for its having broken. "
A carriage is not meant for a 12 year old girl to sit in and that's not even taking into account that a bench is meant for public seating but a carriage is private property.
Last edited by yummymummy on Mon, Nov 29 2010, 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Raisin |
0 likes
|
Moderator
Joined: Aug 04 2004
Posts: 19288
Location: Europe
|
| Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 1:05 pm Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| Merrymom wrote: | | You can't prove that this girl broke the stroller. For all you know some kids figured if a big kid can sit in the stroller then so can we, and they were the ones that actually broke it. Just because the stroller is in an area that is used for strollers doesn't mean that anyone has an achrayus to it. You are taking a chance by parking it there. Of course if you feel that strongly about it you can get a Rav involved but I wouldn't. I would speak directly to the girl and ask her what happened to the stroller since it's not working now. She may freely admit to what happened and in that case maybe you can work something out with her parents. That to me would be the best case scenario. I personally think you should just learn a lesson from this about what to do or not do in the future. |
what exactly should she do in future? not leave her stroller alone? I have done that many many times. With no ill results. A stroller will not break if a small child climbs on it - something you could expect to happen if you leave it alone in shul. It will break if an adult sized person sits on it.
I don't think the OP did anything wrong and I doubt she will stop doing this in future, unless she wants to leave her stroller at home.
(I guess she could fold it, I'm not even sure if you can fold a stroller on shabbos)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Chavelamomela |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: Jul 02 2010
Posts: 1416
|
| Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| sneakermom wrote: | I would be very upset if this happened to me. But I'm not sure I would ask to be paid for the damages. It makes a whole machlokes. I might approach the mother of the girl and simply relate the story and just say, that I thought she might want to know....and if she offers to pay for it then shalom al yisroel.
|
I think this is the best advice.
If I were the mom, and my child did damage to someone else's property, I can guarantee that I'd want to know about it, and find a way to make restitution, even if I can't write you out a $250 check for a new stroller. maybe I'd make my daughter clean your house every week for 2 months, maybe I'd make her sell lemonade to raise the funds, and dock her chanukah gelt, etc.
But either way, as a parent, I'D WANT TO KNOW!!! Let the parents know what happened, that you are concerned, don't want to accuse, but also want them to know that their daughter went back and repeated the bad behavior after she'd been told not to, and that you now don't have a working stroller.
If it were my child, I'd feel awful, and you can bet that I'd make my daughter work her tuchus off to replace or repair your stroller. And I'd also make an extra-super-effort next time to ensure my child is supervised properly in shul and this doesn't happen again to you or anyone else.
If you do all this, and the parents brush it off (they may...you said that they were nearby when this happened), and you really can't write-off the $250 for a replacement stroller, THEN I would call in a rav to ask his help resolving the issue.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| shlomitsmum |
0 likes
|
Diamond Member
Joined: Aug 22 2006
Age: 36
Posts: 3692
Location: TO
|
| Posted: Wed, Dec 15 2010, 1:50 am Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
hey OP! just wondering what happened in the end? 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| yummymummy |
0 likes
|
Diamond Member
Joined: Mar 08 2010
Posts: 2534
|
| Posted: Sat, Dec 18 2010, 9:08 pm Post subject: re: kid broke our stroller WWYD? |
| |
| I am curious too!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Similar Topics |
| Topic |
Author |
Forum |
Replies |
Last Post |
 |
graco stroller broke
|
DunkinLover |
Infants |
2 |
Mon, Mar 18 2013, 11:51 am 
DunkinLover |
|
[ Poll ] dryer broke AGAIN! WWYD?
|
supermommy |
Cleaning & Laundry |
4 |
Sun, Feb 15 2009, 1:20 pm
catonmylap |
 |
Fast - goya broke fridge shelf - WWYD?
|
amother |
Cleaning & Laundry |
31 |
Fri, Apr 15 2011, 6:53 pm
chocolate moose |
|
wwyd in laws trying to name my kid...
|
amother |
Baby Names |
19 |
Fri, Dec 14 2012, 12:21 am
IMHopinion |
|
double stroller with option for a thi...
|
amother |
Strollers |
24 |
Fri, Apr 09 2010, 11:30 am
sky |
| Quick Reply
|
|
|
| Choose Display Order |
|
| User Permissions |
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
