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| LeahW |
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 Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 8:29 am Post subject: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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I don't know the couple in real life, but I do know this -- we all have our bad moments. Whether it's lying, stealing, speaking lashon hara, dressing or behaving immodestly, yelling at our children, hurting someone's feelings... we've all done regrettable things. Does that mean that it should be analyzed and passed around for everyone to comment on? Even though the couple did choose to do this publicly, it obviously did not pan out the way they expected.
Also, there is room here for giving the benefit of the doubt, which we are obligated to do. This is edited television, ladies.
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| faigie |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 8:35 am Post subject: |
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NO WAY am I buying that the shaitel was a synthetic and they lied under oath. This is TV, there is a ton of editing etc.
georgie herself wasnt even in the country to talk to, and for all I know the person at the store took one look at that wig ( could have sent her a pic via a phone) and just didnt want to have anything to do with this situation, saying NOPE NOT ours......
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| Raisin |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 8:39 am Post subject: Re: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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| sequoia wrote: | Lying in court is perjury.
Perjury is wrong.
It's one of the seven noahide laws.
It's wrong for every person on the planet.
Sure the dry cleaners ruined her sheitel.
A cheap synthetic sheitel.
They could have sued for the amount it actually cost.
Instead they tried to pass it off as a different sheitel.
They lied under oath.
It's not okay to do that. |
don't think it was a real court. (not that it makes lying wrong)
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| louche |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 8:50 am Post subject: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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Quite frankly, the whole thing looks suspicious. They don't look like total nitwits, at least not the dh. They didn't want their last name used, but they're willing to appear on national television and think they'll remain anonymous? makes zero sense, even if they live in a no-TV-allowed community. Even if they were thieves and liars, they might have taken the cleaners to regular small claims court--you don't have to have a lawyer to do that-- but on TV? Nope, I do not believe it. Not unless the fee they get from appearing on the show is so high that it's worth risking getting caught and destroying their reputation. The whole show smells fishy.
And I agree that posting this link served no purpose other than LH. It was neither edifying nor inspiring. OP, what were you thinking? that you were performing a public service because all the dry cleaner operators on here would learn not to accept sheitels no matter what the customer said?
And at the risk of getting  at best or flamed at worst, what this couple (possibly) did was unusual in that they (possibly) did it publicly, but it is fundamentally no different from claiming to have 12 children on a Medicaid application when you have 6, or claiming an income of $30K when you clear $100K.
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| imabima |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 8:55 am Post subject: Re: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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| LeahW wrote: | I don't know the couple in real life, but I do know this -- we all have our bad moments. Whether it's lying, stealing, speaking lashon hara, dressing or behaving immodestly, yelling at our children, hurting someone's feelings... we've all done regrettable things. Does that mean that it should be analyzed and passed around for everyone to comment on? Even though the couple did choose to do this publicly, it obviously did not pan out the way they expected.
Also, there is room here for giving the benefit of the doubt, which we are obligated to do. This is edited television, ladies. |
Well said.
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| LeahW |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| faigie wrote: | NO WAY am I buying that the shaitel was a synthetic and they lied under oath. This is TV, there is a ton of editing etc.
georgie herself wasnt even in the country to talk to, and for all I know the person at the store took one look at that wig ( could have sent her a pic via a phone) and just didnt want to have anything to do with this situation, saying NOPE NOT ours...... |
Exactly. It could have been just a secretary that the judge was able to reach, or someone on her first day at the job... Maybe the judge did not explain who she was or what her intentions were and the person on the other end thought that admitting it was their sheitel would create liability. WHO KNOWS?? We do not know, because we're not privy to the editing or how the judge conducted her research.
I find it hard to believe that someone would go into a situation on television where they bring in a wig that can easily be determined to be synthetic.
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| YESHASettler |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 9:10 am Post subject: Re: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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| Raisin wrote: | | sequoia wrote: | Lying in court is perjury.
Perjury is wrong.
It's one of the seven noahide laws.
It's wrong for every person on the planet.
Sure the dry cleaners ruined her sheitel.
A cheap synthetic sheitel.
They could have sued for the amount it actually cost.
Instead they tried to pass it off as a different sheitel.
They lied under oath.
It's not okay to do that. |
don't think it was a real court. (not that it makes lying wrong) |
it's binding arbitration, which is a legal way to settle disputes without actually going to court.
Here's a wiki on the show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People's_Court
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| HindaRochel |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Mama Bear wrote: | | I still stand by saying there is more to this story and the judge came out of left field with that 'gotcha', they looked very shocked and confused. |
I think she also looked confused/shocked.
Has anyone considered that the woman was conned when she bought the sheitel? It is difficult to tell how the sheitel once looked but it could have been cut down and it could be she bought what was told to her was a georgie but was not. It could even be that the person who sold it to her didn't know...they received a bad shipment or whatever.
It is sad to see but also bad to judge. They were shamed enough if they were guilty,shamed greatly if innocent.
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:30 am Post subject: Re: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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| ysmommy wrote: | everybody please!!!!
I know who that couple is in real life.
I really dont think they were lying.
the judge didnt even give them a chance to speak. and her research wasnt thorough at all.
why do you always assume the worst about pple without knowing the story behind it? |
Looks like the judge gave them plenty of chance to speak.
What an embarassment.
How exactly can one give benefit of the doubt? The facts were all laid out and the woman had NOTHING whatsoever to say in her defense when accused by the judge of bringing a receipt for a LONG wig.
Heck, Georgie doesn't sell that brand of wig, according to the judge!!! Oy, oy, oy. This is not even given to misinterpretation! If it were you can be sure the woman and her husband would have said ALOT more.
Sheesh!
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Last edited by ChossidMom on Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| HindaRochel wrote: | | Mama Bear wrote: | | I still stand by saying there is more to this story and the judge came out of left field with that 'gotcha', they looked very shocked and confused. |
I think she also looked confused/shocked.
Has anyone considered that the woman was conned when she bought the sheitel? It is difficult to tell how the sheitel once looked but it could have been cut down and it could be she bought what was told to her was a georgie but was not.
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The woman said she BOUGHT it at Georgie. Not that it was a Georgie. The Georgie salon said they don't carry this brand (according to the judge)
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| faigie wrote: | NO WAY am I buying that the shaitel was a synthetic and they lied under oath. This is TV, there is a ton of editing etc.
georgie herself wasnt even in the country to talk to, and for all I know the person at the store took one look at that wig ( could have sent her a pic via a phone) and just didnt want to have anything to do with this situation, saying NOPE NOT ours...... |
You believe the perjurer as to Georige *not being in the country*?
The judge called the store and had them check their records against the actual receipt provided by the plaintiff. The receipt was for a long sheitl; the one that she sued over was short. That was the only wig that the plaintiff had purchased from Georgie during that period. While she could have cut the sheitl, its not likely that someone would pay for a long sheitl and cut it so short so soon afterward. While the piece was clearly edited to highlight what happened -- showing the woman saying she had one wig (which she was wearing) and a fall (what was that dead rat thing then?), etc. Not to mention that there was a tag in the sheitl indicating that it was A DIFFERENT BRAND. Oops.
The judge was clear that even if the laundry had the plaintiff's permission to wash the sheitl (and I doubt they did), they still had an obligation not to ruin it. The judge's question was whether it was ruined or if it could be repaired for less than the replacement cost.
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:38 am Post subject: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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All I know is that that trial/arbitration was VERY painful to watch.
Whatever were they THINKING - agreeing to have themselves televised??????? Easy money, huh?
Well there you go.
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:40 am Post subject: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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And for whomever said that we have no right to analyze:
ANYONE WHO PUTS THEMSELVES ON TV OR YOUTUBE is open to analysis and criticism. Everyone knows that TV and Film edit things. It's always a risk. Time to grow up, I guess.
That judge sounded pretty fair to me, by the way. And not biased in any way. She gave the laundromat people the business about laundering the wig! But how could she ever find for the plaintiffs once she discovered they were not truthful?
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| cassandra |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:44 am Post subject: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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I will admit that the People's Court is one of my guiltiest pleasures, and that frum people are on very often and they represent us well, though sometimes not.
You should also know that the judge bases her decision MOSTLY based on their written deposition and evidence that they submit before they come to testify in person. The testimony is mostly for the show purposes and so that the judge gets a feel of the two sides. And then she does research during the breaks from the testimony, and that's how she figures it all out. The spoken testimony itself is not primary on this show.
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| cassandra |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Barbara wrote: |
You believe the perjurer as to Georige *not being in the country*?
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Even if Georgie wasn't in the country another employee in the store could have just as easily answered those questions. The judge has absolutely no motivation to make up that she spoke to them.
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| HindaRochel |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| ChossidMom wrote: | | HindaRochel wrote: | | Mama Bear wrote: | | I still stand by saying there is more to this story and the judge came out of left field with that 'gotcha', they looked very shocked and confused. |
I think she also looked confused/shocked.
Has anyone considered that the woman was conned when she bought the sheitel? It is difficult to tell how the sheitel once looked but it could have been cut down and it could be she bought what was told to her was a georgie but was not.
|
The woman said she BOUGHT it at Georgie. Not that it was a Georgie. The Georgie salon said they don't carry this brand (according to the judge) |
Ah, Georgie is a brand...but still...They were shamed enough regardless. Why carry it on?
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| superjew |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Wow. Unbelievable - literally. I have no idea where to put this in my mind. I keep telling myself this isn't the full story, & I'm sure it isn't. I can't judge based on this clip & I won't.
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| ysmommy |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 11:06 am Post subject: Re: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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| ChossidMom wrote: | | ysmommy wrote: | everybody please!!!!
I know who that couple is in real life.
I really dont think they were lying.
the judge didnt even give them a chance to speak. and her research wasnt thorough at all.
why do you always assume the worst about pple without knowing the story behind it? |
Looks like the judge gave them plenty of chance to speak.
What an embarassment.
How exactly can one give benefit of the doubt? The facts were all laid out and the woman had NOTHING whatsoever to say in her defense when accused by the judge of bringing a receipt for a LONG wig.
Heck, Georgie doesn't sell that brand of wig, according to the judge!!! Oy, oy, oy. This is not even given to misinterpretation! If it were you can be sure the woman and her husband would have said ALOT more.
Sheesh! |
im giving her the benefit of the doubt because I know who she is in real life.
knowing her I highly doubt she would even own a synthetic shaitel.
they are not stupid pple so I am assuming there is more to the story.
it was an edited TV show and she had no chance to even respond before the judge made her ruling.
and as a frum jew you and I are obligated to give her the benefit of the doubt and many pple here came up with very good reasons as to what could have happened.
shame on you and on all the other pple condemning them. you are ignoring your halachic obligations to be dan lcaf zechus in order to point out their possible wrongdoings- hypocritical to say the least.
and just because it was on TV doesnt mean that lashon harah doesnt apply so that reasoning doesnt hold water.
and to the op- do you know that chillul hashem is primarily for OTHER JEWS??? it is a bigger chillul hashem to make jews think poorly of other jews then to do so among non jews. so what you did in effect was continue the avairah (if in fact they were lying) you went online to a jewish frum forum and cast another jew in bad light. so dont be so disturbed by their actions. it appears you are guilty of chillul hashem, lashon harah, possible motzai shem rah...and maybe more.
I really think moderators should remove this thread.
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| sequoia |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 11:07 am Post subject: re: What a Chillul Hashem |
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ysmommy, do you know her or "know" her? 
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Tue, Dec 07 2010, 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| cassandra wrote: | | Barbara wrote: |
You believe the perjurer as to Georige *not being in the country*?
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Even if Georgie wasn't in the country another employee in the store could have just as easily answered those questions. The judge has absolutely no motivation to make up that she spoke to them. |
Oh, I agree. The Judge said she had someone at the store check the receipt. All I'm saying is that given that they appeared to be lying about other things, I wouldn't trust them on that point, either.
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