Spinoff- Jewish groups where full time help is normal

Gold Member Joined: Sep 13 2008 Age: 39 Posts: 2045

I went to a private school that had a lot of Jewish kids. Many if not most had housekeepers and went to summer camp all summer. DH had a fulltime housekeeper and his mom was a stay at home mom. These kids were in the same upper-middle class income level as the rest of us, and we always wondered why their parents didn't seem to want them around.

If you want to do it and can afford it, that's great! But to say it's impossible without one? I come from a background more associated with being the household help, instead of having it. These women work a physically demanding job for long hours and then come back home and take care of their own houses and families. So, it is not impossible.

Very commong at my kids school. Majority of children get dropped off and picked up by aupairs or nannies. Majority of mothers are SAHM (husbands have professional jobs with decent salary), some work P/T, hardly any mothers work F/T, maybe 1-2 for the whole school. Quite a number of mothers also hire cleaning lady, I know a few who hire housekeeper.

Before you accuse SAHM with full time help, you don't know what they do. Some of them want to devote time to new babies. Some of them have very busy social schedule, hosts shiurim a few times a week, always have 30+ families/guests, looks after or visit sick relatives. Unlike in Israel, you can't leave young children by themselves or have them go to school by themselves.

If you can afford fulltime help, what's the big deal? It's none of your business, really.

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2613

I have a big values issue with just leaving the kids with the nanny/sitter/housekeeper so you can... do what? If you are working, you're showing your children something important: the value of work. But a FT sitter when you don't work outside the home? What's your job now?

Diamond Member Joined: Mar 17 2008 Posts: 3586

I think that as much as people on this thread are saying that they�re not being judgemental�they are.

As a disclaimer, I don't have full time help. I don't have part time help. I don't have any help at all (unless you count dh and other relatives). I don't have a cleaning lady. I don't have money right now to throw away on one, and my house shows it. I'm fine with that. I'm a WAHM with two kids.

I'd like to make a few points:

1. Just like it's normal to think that everyone to the right of you is an extremist and everyone to the left of you just isn't frum enough...it's normal to think that everyone with more help than you is spoiled and has it easy, and everyone with less help than you is crazy and "how do you manage?" When I had one kid, I thought it was a full time job and could not understand how people deal with more. I now think that about two kids. Oh, and when I was first married I thought that working 40 hours a week and being responsible for most of the cooking, cleaning, and laundry was so exhausting and overwhelming. Now I look back at those earlier stages and think they're a cinch. I'm sure that people look at me, with my two young kids, and think that I'm living on easy street. It's easy to judge people.

2. As much as I wouldn't want to spend money on it, I could definitely see the benefit of full time help. When my baby is crying and my older toddler needs a diaper change and a nap, boy would I enjoy having an extra pair of hands. When I'm trying frantically to get dinner on the table with a baby in one arm and a toddler kvetching for me to play with him, I'd be very happy to have someone else help out. Same when my baby is sleeping but I have four errands I really need to take care of. Everyone on here really thinks that they wouldn't enjoy having an extra pair of hands around the house, if, say, they weren't paying for it (or could easily afford it)? You really think that the kids would feel like they were being taken care of by someone else? I feel like it would just be a big help for Mommy, that's all.

3. Everyone thinks what they have is normal. Sort of a repeat of the above. If you grew up going to a bungalow colony every summer, you think that people who don't are shortchanging their kids. If you grew up going to a hotel every Pesach (or to parents), you think that people who manage to make Pesach with kids underfoot, for dozens of guests, as being superwomen. In truth, people who do all these things ARE superwomen. We do so many incredible things that take so much koach. Take pride in that. But please don't look down on women who choose not to and are in awe of how it could work out.

There. Anyone who knows me would laugh that I'm "defending" this position. But I'm not. I'm just asking for some understanding and some taming of judgemental attitudes.

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 01 2005 Posts: 17096

NYLON the OP of that thread is actually home all day with the sitter, she is having a hard time managing 2 kids on her own. which is understandable, but not impossible.
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Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2613

Yes, I know that. I still think that to say it's impossible to take care of 2 normal children on your own (she did not describe a day that was anything but ordinary) is insulting to mothers who DO do it themselves.

I am being judgmental. Aren't we all? I'm comfortable with saying that with 2 children and no job, you should not need full time help unless you or your child is sick or disabled.

As for my business: I think that this has a lot to do with values, and that IS other people's business. I think the culture of affluence and entitlement is a social problem.

Sounds nice! OK, maybe not all of the time, but after nights when someone is up all night, the ability to go and take a nap would be awesome, and not having to do all the laundry, scrub floors and bathrooms, clean up after cooking...those parts sound awesome!

AMother from South Africa again.

I didn't grow up here. I grew up with two extremely hard working parents, who worked multiple jobs to ensure that their family had food on the table. We had help only as long as my mother was working out of the house.

I see the enormous difference between the South African Jewish community and where I have lived in America, and I think part of that is due to the fact that everyone has full time help.

It is a very, very close community, with people that really care. It's a beautiful thing and I think it's partly due to the fact that there is so much socializing going on.

People host shabbos meals with guests all the times, Sunday braais (BBQs in American), go out to the park on Sunday with all their friends.

It's easier to do all the above if you have someone doing all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, ironing etc. Some maids here even do the grocery shopping and the errands.

So you have time to spend with your kids, your friends, and your family and you can develop relationships that are real.

I am not in any way saying that people that don't have full time help don't have good relationships with people, it's just easier to cultivate them when you don't have the stress of laundry,cleaning, and ironing on your head as well.

I know when I lived in NYC I had an hour commute to work, worked all day, and came home and cooked dinner. Sundays was errands and cleaning. I rarely saw my friends.

Here, I can go to a shiur at someone's house every afternoon. And woman are all there, not stressed about dinner, or the laundry or whatever. Also I think we are know as a community that does an unbelievable amount of Chessed, both within the Jewish community and the broader African communities at large.

I think full-time help is great for those that can afford it. Is it necessary? Not at all.
Does that lifestyle come with downsides as well? Absolutely.

But to all the people saying how it's ridiculous to have full time help if you are a SAHM or have less than 2.7 kids or whatever, just realize there is a big world out there, and people do different things all over the world.

Posted: Fri, Nov 05 2010, 10:44 am Post subject:

Growing up I had a neighbor on the block who had full time help, every single day from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. And it didn't start when she had 4 kids, it started earlier. This was in Williamsburg. So what? I don't think anyone blinked an eye or cared. They were wealthy, and she used her money for household help. No big deal.

I can say with certainty that if I had the kind of money that allowed me to have full time help with two babies while being pregnant and not working, I'd grab it with both hands.

I think this thread is in bad taste, considering that we're actively discussing another poster's right to have as much help as she wants to.

Posted: Fri, Nov 05 2010, 10:45 am Post subject:

Now I REALLY don't know what I will do if my income is doubled (read that thread..). Even when people rightfully can afford a lifestyle as this one, thye are being microscoped.
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Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2613

I wonder if all your maids would have such a rosy view of the situation. And please, don't tell me they're just grateful to have a job. We all have blind spots when they're to our benefit. Your paradise has big costs.

Look, we all have luxuries. I have 3 bedrooms and 1 child. It's nice to have a spare room, but I'd be lying if I told you I can't manage without it. Just don't tell me your luxury is a necessity, especially when it's a luxury that's beyond the financial reach of the vast majority of people. Only 2.5% of Americans have a household income above $200K, which is about what's required to afford FT help. Look beyond the daled amot of your wealthy neighborhoods.

Posted: Fri, Nov 05 2010, 10:48 am Post subject:

I think you're wrong about the $200K figure. People with less can definitely afford $500 a week for full-time help. Of course, it also depends on many more things.

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2613

Like I said in the last thread: Jealousy assumes I want what you have. I don't. If I wanted someone else to do my childcare, I'd go to work.

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2613

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2613