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| Poll |
| How particular are you that your child sits in the appropriately sized safety seat in a car? |
| My child must ALWAYS sit in the appropriately-sized safety seat. |
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42% |
[ 23 ] |
| My child must sit in an appropriately-sized safety seat unless it's an unforseen situation. |
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37% |
[ 20 ] |
| My child sits in an appropriately-sized safety seat in my car, but I'm not particular in other people's cars. |
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11% |
[ 6 ] |
| As long as my child is in some form of safety seat it's okay, but it doesn't have to be the approriate size. |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
| I prefer my child in a safety seat, but I'm not particular about it. |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| My child doesn't have to be in a safety seat. |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 54 |
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| amother |
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Amother
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 Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 7:58 am Post subject: How particular are you about your child's safety seat? |
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see poll.
(Obviously, only answer for kids who could technically still be in a safety seat.)
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| Marion |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Why amother?
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| ididit |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 9:47 am Post subject: re: How particular are you about your child's safety seat? |
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okay, so shoot me. I am still a dinosaur on this one. I was raised in the days without car seats only infant car BEDS. and we all somehow survived. so, it's hard to change my attitude now. I do insist that every kid wear the seat belt, and if they're small, they sit with the belt across their laps, and the shoulder portion slipped behind them. this is technically safe, btw, as I checked it out with a friend who's a traffic safety expert. I just keep thinking that the only ones really benefitting from children's safety seats past age 3 are the manufacturers... and the most dangerous seat to be in is the front passenger seat, so only my kids who are old enough/big enough to just wear the safety belt get to sit there.
like I said, I'm a dinosaur.
in any case, I think we drive with the kids in the car maybe twice a year, so this isn't such a hot topic in my house...
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 10:19 am Post subject: Re: re: How particular are you about your child's safety sea |
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| ididit wrote: | okay, so shoot me. I am still a dinosaur on this one. I was raised in the days without car seats only infant car BEDS. and we all somehow survived. so, it's hard to change my attitude now. I do insist that every kid wear the seat belt, and if they're small, they sit with the belt across their laps, and the shoulder portion slipped behind them. this is technically safe, btw, as I checked it out with a friend who's a traffic safety expert. I just keep thinking that the only ones really benefitting from children's safety seats past age 3 are the manufacturers... and the most dangerous seat to be in is the front passenger seat, so only my kids who are old enough/big enough to just wear the safety belt get to sit there.
like I said, I'm a dinosaur.
in any case, I think we drive with the kids in the car maybe twice a year, so this isn't such a hot topic in my house... |
That person is hardly an expert if s/he doesn't recognize the dangers of not using the shoulder restraint:
There are two types of injury associated with using a lap only belt:
* Head and/or neck injury. This is caused when the individual is thrown forward and has no upper body restraint. They continue moving forward until they are stopped by something. Many times, it is the head that contacts the interior of the vehicle - dashboard, front seats, consoles, door frames, even the floor of the vehicle or the individual's knees. The injuries can be severe brain trauma from impacting something at a high rate of speed, cuts, abrasions, skull fractures, broken neck, jaw fractures, orbital fractures, etc. The neck can also be severely injured including the spinal cord being severed. The spinal cord is not able to be stretched beyond a certain point. In frontal crashes, a lap only belt will hold the lower body in place, but the heavy head will pull the upper body forward at a high rate. If the head does not contact anything to stop the rapid forward motion, the neck will eventually stop the head, but the force of this will stretch the neck bones, muscles and even the spinal cord - often beyond it's limit. Children and adults both have been paralyzed or killed in this manner - their spinal cord simply wasn't capable of stretching enough to withstand the crash force. There are two types of injury associated with using a lap only belt:
Seat Belt Syndrome. Seat Belt Syndrome, or SBS, is a phrase that was originally coined by the medical community in the late 1950s and early 1960s to describe injuries that physicians were seeing as a result of occupants wearing lap-belt-only restraints in frontal collisions. These injuries typically include: (1) severe abdominal injuries, (2) fractures of the lumbar spine, and (3) serious closed head and facial injuries. These injuries are primarily the result of the occupant's body jackknifing over the lap belt, at the waist, during the collision. Under such circumstances, the lap belt causes extreme force to be applied along the pelvis to the mid-section of the occupant. Securing the waist without securing the upper torso leads to increased head and neck velocities, which can cause serious head and neck injuries following either a head strike or inertial loading of the spine. A majority of these injuries can be prevented by the installation of an integrated three-point belt or other upper-torso restraint. (http://www.mobar.net/journal/1999/mayjun/langdon.htm)
When the lap belt does all the restraining, it, and the part of the body it is holding, take the entire force of the crash. On a child, the lap belt does not sit down on the hips, as it should, but most often rides up over the soft abdominal area. In a crash, the lap belt pulls toward the seat back and the body is pulled away from the seat back. These conflicting forces concentrate a lot of energy on two things that are very vulnerable - the abdominal organs, and the spine. The injuries that are associated with SBS include, but are not limited to:
* liver
* kidney
* spleen
* intestinal
* stomach damage.
Some of these organs get damaged beyond repair, meaning life-long handicap or death. The other injury is paralysis - not from neck injury, but from the lap belt actually severing the lower part of the spinal cord.
Kathleen Weber's research paper "Crash Protection for Child Passengers" says:
The question of fatality reduction effectiveness of rear-seat lap vs. lap/shoulder belts has recently been addressed in an extensive double-pair analysis by Morgan in which children of age 5 through 14 were included and evaluated separately. The conclusions for rear-outboard occupants in this age group are that lap-belted children were 38% less likely to die than unrestrained children, while lap/ shoulder-belted children were less likely by 52%. The lap/shoulder belt was found to reduce fatalities 26% over lap belts alone for children 5 through 14 in all crashes and 31% in frontal crashes, and children derived more relative benefit from the lap/shoulder belt than did the adult groups. Further analysis with supplemental cause of death data indicated that both types of belted children were somewhat more likely to receive abdominal injuries than unrestrained children, but the increase for the adult groups in lap belts was much greater. Finally, both belt systems markedly reduced fatal head injuries, but these were still twice as likely among lap-belted than lap/shoulder-belted children. This study makes it clear that shoulder belt use is very beneficial for older children.
With a lap belt, you only have two anchor points...two points of protection. On most children, those two points are going to be poorly positioned. A lap/shoulder belt provides three points of protection, include upper body protection, and a booster that must be utilized with a lap/shoulder belt properly positions those points for optimal effectiveness.
# Many of the injuries associated with lap only belts are also associated with shield boosters.
# A booster seat should NEVER be used with a lap-only belt. Options for kids over 40 lbs with lap only belts
# Children up to 40 lbs are best protected in a harnessed seat - either a convertible seat, a forward-facing only seat, or a combination seat.
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| saw50st8 |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 10:27 am Post subject: re: How particular are you about your child's safety seat? |
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I said always unless there is an unforseen circumstance. To me, that's along the lines of an emergency. Not an "Oh no, don't have a car seat and have to get to a birthday party." More like "Child fell down and we need to get to the emergency room."
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 11:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty tough about carseats.
I can't say that its never, ever happened that my child wasn't in one (like a 3 1/2 + child, not younger, they are always in a car seat). But normally it was out of my control like MIL decided to drive them somewhere, but he was still in a booster seat not a car seat (which was probably okay, because he is HUGE for his age, but still not my ideal)
I hate when people ask me to give them rides without a carseat. I will NOT do it for an infant or very young child. I've had people get upset at me over it but I just cannot take that responsibility on myself.
I know for myself I was probably saved by being in a carseat and it was neis because my mother was not putting me in a carseat at that age. I insisted on going in my younger brother's car seat. We were in an accident. and the way that the seats were smooshed, I would have been smooshed had I not been padded by the carseat. So even though I don't remember it makes me pretty strict on them.
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| MrsDash |
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Diamond Member
Joined: Jan 24 2010
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 12:18 pm Post subject: re: How particular are you about your child's safety seat? |
| |
| Motor vehicle accidents are the number ONE cause of death in young children. That being said, yes, I always keep my child in secure and proper restraints in a car. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics (most pediatricians follow) people shouldn't switch at the minimum required age/height/weight for rear facing car seats, forward facing car seats, or booster seats. The longer the better. Most importantly Example, at 40 pounds a child can "technically" be in a booster seat, but if the car seat allows it, they should remain in the car seat longer.
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| the world's best mom |
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Joined: Jun 09 2009
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: re: How particular are you about your child's safety sea |
| |
| ididit wrote: | okay, so shoot me. I am still a dinosaur on this one. I was raised in the days without car seats only infant car BEDS. and we all somehow survived. so, it's hard to change my attitude now. I do insist that every kid wear the seat belt, and if they're small, they sit with the belt across their laps, and the shoulder portion slipped behind them. this is technically safe, btw, as I checked it out with a friend who's a traffic safety expert. I just keep thinking that the only ones really benefitting from children's safety seats past age 3 are the manufacturers... and the most dangerous seat to be in is the front passenger seat, so only my kids who are old enough/big enough to just wear the safety belt get to sit there.
like I said, I'm a dinosaur.
in any case, I think we drive with the kids in the car maybe twice a year, so this isn't such a hot topic in my house... |
I was once somewhere with my aunt and uncle. They were asked to give a 3 year old a ride home without a carseat and my uncle, who is a medic, refused. My aunt said she thought a seatbelt should be enough for a kid that age, but my uncle said the seatbelt could do a lot of damage to a kid that age. He left without her. I agree with him.
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| the world's best mom |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: re: How particular are you about your child's safety sea |
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| the world's best mom wrote: | | He left without her. I agree with him. |
By "her" I meant the 3 year old. He took my aunt with him, don't worry.
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| MrsDash |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: re: How particular are you about your child's safety sea |
| |
| Barbara wrote: | | ididit wrote: | okay, so shoot me. I am still a dinosaur on this one. I was raised in the days without car seats only infant car BEDS. and we all somehow survived. so, it's hard to change my attitude now. I do insist that every kid wear the seat belt, and if they're small, they sit with the belt across their laps, and the shoulder portion slipped behind them. this is technically safe, btw, as I checked it out with a friend who's a traffic safety expert. I just keep thinking that the only ones really benefitting from children's safety seats past age 3 are the manufacturers... and the most dangerous seat to be in is the front passenger seat, so only my kids who are old enough/big enough to just wear the safety belt get to sit there.
like I said, I'm a dinosaur.
in any case, I think we drive with the kids in the car maybe twice a year, so this isn't such a hot topic in my house... |
That person is hardly an expert if s/he doesn't recognize the dangers of not using the shoulder restraint:
There are two types of injury associated with using a lap only belt:
* Head and/or neck injury. This is caused when the individual is thrown forward and has no upper body restraint. They continue moving forward until they are stopped by something. Many times, it is the head that contacts the interior of the vehicle - dashboard, front seats, consoles, door frames, even the floor of the vehicle or the individual's knees. The injuries can be severe brain trauma from impacting something at a high rate of speed, cuts, abrasions, skull fractures, broken neck, jaw fractures, orbital fractures, etc. The neck can also be severely injured including the spinal cord being severed. The spinal cord is not able to be stretched beyond a certain point. In frontal crashes, a lap only belt will hold the lower body in place, but the heavy head will pull the upper body forward at a high rate. If the head does not contact anything to stop the rapid forward motion, the neck will eventually stop the head, but the force of this will stretch the neck bones, muscles and even the spinal cord - often beyond it's limit. Children and adults both have been paralyzed or killed in this manner - their spinal cord simply wasn't capable of stretching enough to withstand the crash force. There are two types of injury associated with using a lap only belt:
Seat Belt Syndrome. Seat Belt Syndrome, or SBS, is a phrase that was originally coined by the medical community in the late 1950s and early 1960s to describe injuries that physicians were seeing as a result of occupants wearing lap-belt-only restraints in frontal collisions. These injuries typically include: (1) severe abdominal injuries, (2) fractures of the lumbar spine, and (3) serious closed head and facial injuries. These injuries are primarily the result of the occupant's body jackknifing over the lap belt, at the waist, during the collision. Under such circumstances, the lap belt causes extreme force to be applied along the pelvis to the mid-section of the occupant. Securing the waist without securing the upper torso leads to increased head and neck velocities, which can cause serious head and neck injuries following either a head strike or inertial loading of the spine. A majority of these injuries can be prevented by the installation of an integrated three-point belt or other upper-torso restraint. (http://www.mobar.net/journal/1999/mayjun/langdon.htm)
When the lap belt does all the restraining, it, and the part of the body it is holding, take the entire force of the crash. On a child, the lap belt does not sit down on the hips, as it should, but most often rides up over the soft abdominal area. In a crash, the lap belt pulls toward the seat back and the body is pulled away from the seat back. These conflicting forces concentrate a lot of energy on two things that are very vulnerable - the abdominal organs, and the spine. The injuries that are associated with SBS include, but are not limited to:
* liver
* kidney
* spleen
* intestinal
* stomach damage.
Some of these organs get damaged beyond repair, meaning life-long handicap or death. The other injury is paralysis - not from neck injury, but from the lap belt actually severing the lower part of the spinal cord.
Kathleen Weber's research paper "Crash Protection for Child Passengers" says:
The question of fatality reduction effectiveness of rear-seat lap vs. lap/shoulder belts has recently been addressed in an extensive double-pair analysis by Morgan in which children of age 5 through 14 were included and evaluated separately. The conclusions for rear-outboard occupants in this age group are that lap-belted children were 38% less likely to die than unrestrained children, while lap/ shoulder-belted children were less likely by 52%. The lap/shoulder belt was found to reduce fatalities 26% over lap belts alone for children 5 through 14 in all crashes and 31% in frontal crashes, and children derived more relative benefit from the lap/shoulder belt than did the adult groups. Further analysis with supplemental cause of death data indicated that both types of belted children were somewhat more likely to receive abdominal injuries than unrestrained children, but the increase for the adult groups in lap belts was much greater. Finally, both belt systems markedly reduced fatal head injuries, but these were still twice as likely among lap-belted than lap/shoulder-belted children. This study makes it clear that shoulder belt use is very beneficial for older children.
With a lap belt, you only have two anchor points...two points of protection. On most children, those two points are going to be poorly positioned. A lap/shoulder belt provides three points of protection, include upper body protection, and a booster that must be utilized with a lap/shoulder belt properly positions those points for optimal effectiveness.
# Many of the injuries associated with lap only belts are also associated with shield boosters.
# A booster seat should NEVER be used with a lap-only belt. Options for kids over 40 lbs with lap only belts
# Children up to 40 lbs are best protected in a harnessed seat - either a convertible seat, a forward-facing only seat, or a combination seat. |
Are you sure we're not related in some way or another? 
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| MrsDash |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: re: How particular are you about your child's safety sea |
| |
| the world's best mom wrote: | | ididit wrote: | okay, so shoot me. I am still a dinosaur on this one. I was raised in the days without car seats only infant car BEDS. and we all somehow survived. so, it's hard to change my attitude now. I do insist that every kid wear the seat belt, and if they're small, they sit with the belt across their laps, and the shoulder portion slipped behind them. this is technically safe, btw, as I checked it out with a friend who's a traffic safety expert. I just keep thinking that the only ones really benefitting from children's safety seats past age 3 are the manufacturers... and the most dangerous seat to be in is the front passenger seat, so only my kids who are old enough/big enough to just wear the safety belt get to sit there.
like I said, I'm a dinosaur.
in any case, I think we drive with the kids in the car maybe twice a year, so this isn't such a hot topic in my house... |
I was once somewhere with my aunt and uncle. They were asked to give a 3 year old a ride home without a carseat and my uncle, who is a medic, refused. My aunt said she thought a seatbelt should be enough for a kid that age, but my uncle said the seatbelt could do a lot of damage to a kid that age. He left without her. I agree with him. |
My husband, a medic as well, has seen awful accidents where the parent was "only" parking their car, or backing their car out, with a child who wasn't properly secured.
One case in particular, the parent had their 5 year old on their lap while moving their car from the street into the driveway. Another car driving by hit their car, and the child went through the windshield. Thankfully, the child survived, but had severe facial trauma.
Your uncle was 100 % in the right!
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| amother |
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Amother
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 1:24 pm Post subject: re: How particular are you about your child's safety seat? |
| |
I always have the kids in proper car seats, always inspect the seats and follow expiration dates and try to purchase the highest safety rated seats on the market.
I don't give rides to kids unless I have an appropriate seat in my car.
Of course, I worked for a personal injury lawyer and I've seen pictures of traumas that will most parents nightmares for life.
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| preempservices |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to an earlier thread about outdated carseats, I threw out my spare, outdated one and bought a new booster to put in other people's cars (my son travels a lot)
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| reed |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 1:53 pm Post subject: re: How particular are you about your child's safety seat? |
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| The car doesn't go anywhere until everyone is properly buckled in his/her appropriate seat/carseat/booster. Period.
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| reed |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: re: How particular are you about your child's safety sea |
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| yoshi wrote: | | Most importantly Example, at 40 pounds a child can "technically" be in a booster seat, but if the car seat allows it, they should remain in the car seat longer. |
I always wondered about this. Some of my kids are small, so I keep them in the car seat as long as I am reasonably able to. It's easier and more reliable, since the carseat is buckled into the car, and stays put. They seem to be buckled more securely in the carseat with the carseat straps, than they would be with the same seat used as a booster - with the car's belts. The boosters also tend to get moved around when they're not buckled in place while not in use.
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| amother |
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Amother
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 2:31 pm Post subject: |
| |
Pretty strict about it. It helps that the tickets for kids under 8 out of a carseat restraint are absurd here. Each kid not in an age appropriate seat is 300 bucks plus 2 points on your license.
I will admit to having my kids not in the best possible seats, when a friend came to pick us up after the fire department forced us to evacuate....
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| IYamWhoIYam |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Since I've been in an accident (B"H my kids were not with me), I'm paranoid about their carseats. My son who was technically able to be in a booster (he was 3 1/2 at the time) went right back into a 5-point harness. I suffered an injury with 'just' a seatbelt, I shudder to think what would have happened had I g-d forbid had kids in the car with 'just' a seatbelt for restraint. I was in another accident after that, with both kids properly restrained, and neither of them budged.
My car does not BUDGE until everybody is properly restrained/seat-belted. Yes, I require seatbelts 'even' in the back seat.
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| amother |
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Amother
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 21 2010, 2:37 pm Post subject: re: How particular are you about your child's safety seat? |
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| where are all the ladies who ask me for rides with their kids all the time, without car seats? so far everyone here has agreed that they're essential.
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| Marion |
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| Posted: Wed, Sep 22 2010, 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| A friend's brother was paralyzed from the waist down at 16 when he was a passnger wearing only a lapbelt (middle seat in the back; that's the belt that was installed in the vehicle). And he was not "small" by any stretch of the imagination. OTOH, if he hadn't bothered with the belt he would have been dead...he says he'll take the wheelchair, thank you very much.
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| bnm |
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| Posted: Wed, Sep 22 2010, 2:13 am Post subject: Re: re: How particular are you about your child's safety sea |
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| amother wrote: | | where are all the ladies who ask me for rides with their kids all the time, without car seats? so far everyone here has agreed that they're essential. |
a friend drove me around one day, I shlepped along a full sized car seat for my daughter. I takeh didn't install it rear facing like she still needs it (almost 2 but not yet 20 pounds) but I did a nice tight install.
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