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| amother |
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Amother


Joined: Aug 08 2004 Posts: 6128421 Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 4:52 am Post subject: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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Okay, first of all, I am VERY glad the Torah makes it the Husband's responsibility to give his wife relations acc to the ketuba instead of vice versa (I would hate the idea if it were the other way around, because that would just seem innapropriate)..but my question is WHY is that, from a purely logical standpoint?
I asked a mashpia and she told me that for a woman to be deprived of relations causes her more agmas nefesh than a man, since relations to a woman affects her emotionally and psychologically as well as physically. I asked her "to men it is just physical?" she said "to women relations represents something deeper in the heart and it causes her more pain to be deprived than a man.
This is what makes me really respect Judaism, because even though spilling seed in vain is a huge aveira, still, women are not commanded to be with their husbands and their every whim, like in other cultures and are not their property.
At the same time, I feel a bit unsettled...does this imply that it doesn't cause a man as much suffering to be deprived by his wife?
Anyone have any thoughts on this matter, or hear from a rabbi or a frum counselor or a kallah teacher some insights on this..
Thanks
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| amother |
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Amother


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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 5:11 am Post subject: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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OP
I had a thought
could it be because if a husband doesn't touch his wife and she strays chas v'shalom she is liable for the death penalty whereas if a man strays its a lighter aveira? Therefore deprivation would cause her to feel more frustrated?
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Amother


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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:02 pm Post subject: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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OP bumping this.
Wow, no one is interested about this topic? It has all the ingredients of a hot thread..it's about intimacy, power dynamics of men and women, emotional issues, different views of Jewish Marriage..etc..
no one is interested????
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| saw50st8 |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:07 pm Post subject: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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I think in a practical sense, men generally have a higher se-x drive so it would be cruel to force a woman into more se-x than she wants. Especially post partum and times of low drive.
Is it cruel to withhold se-x from your spouse? Depends on why you are withholding. _________________ Never mistake activity for achievement.
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| Nuts |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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It is indeed a very interesting topic. I always thought it was the opposite. That the wife has an obligation to her husband. _________________ I am not nuts!
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| simba |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:10 pm Post subject: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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I cannot imagine it is related to the punishment. That does not sound the Torah way.
I think it has a lot to do with Tznius, nd the feelings of a women.
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| mimivan |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Nuts wrote: | | It is indeed a very interesting topic. I always thought it was the opposite. That the wife has an obligation to her husband. |
a woman should be there for her husband so he doesn't sin..
but actually it is written in the ketuba that it is one of the man's cardinal responsibilities toward his wife. Maybe b kitzur a couple should be there for each other. _________________ Say, Think or Do One Thing Now to Bring Moshiach!
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| TWINNY |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:13 pm Post subject: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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It is the curse of the woman-'vehu yimshel bach' _________________ Nothing will work unless u do.
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| sequoia |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:21 pm Post subject: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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Because men WANT sx more, but women NEED it more. _________________ We must love one another or die.
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| TWINNY wrote: | | It is the curse of the woman-'vehu yimshel bach' |
I am not sure if this is what the curse is referring to. To me it seems that the man is the one that will rule the household and somewhat "own" his wife. I cannot imagine the curse is referring to the s-xual obligation a man has towards his wife.
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Amother


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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| sequoia wrote: | | Because men WANT sx more, but women NEED it more. |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| sequoia wrote: | | Because men WANT sx more, but women NEED it more. |
I am not sure if they need it more or, the absence of it hurts them deeper.
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| sequoia |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| simba wrote: | | sequoia wrote: | | Because men WANT sx more, but women NEED it more. |
I am not sure if they need it more or, the absence of it hurts them deeper. |
Aren't they equivalent statements?
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| sequoia wrote: | | simba wrote: | | sequoia wrote: | | Because men WANT sx more, but women NEED it more. |
I am not sure if they need it more or, the absence of it hurts them deeper. |
Aren't they equivalent statements? |
I though about that as I was posting. They are in a way. I just think the wording is important, a woman doesn't need it as much as she is pained by it being denied to her. It is not the physical aspect she needs,it is the emotions and feelings it promotes that she needs.
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Amother


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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| simba wrote: | | sequoia wrote: | | simba wrote: | | sequoia wrote: | | Because men WANT sx more, but women NEED it more. |
I am not sure if they need it more or, the absence of it hurts them deeper. |
Aren't they equivalent statements? |
I though about that as I was posting. They are in a way. I just think the wording is important, a woman doesn't need it as much as she is pained by it being denied to her. It is not the physical aspect she needs,it is the emotions and feelings it promotes that she needs. |
I find that very stereotypical.
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| Zus |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Many things in our religion are stereotypical. Why would this be any different? _________________ Certified Childbirth Educator
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:43 pm Post subject: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| Hormones induce feelings of calm and euphoria. You can't really separate the physical from the emotional.
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| TWINNY |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| simba wrote: | | TWINNY wrote: | | It is the curse of the woman-'vehu yimshel bach' |
I am not sure if this is what the curse is referring to. To me it seems that the man is the one that will rule the household and somewhat "own" his wife. I cannot imagine the curse is referring to the s-xual obligation a man has towards his wife. |
Rashi says "v'el isheich tshikaseich,vehu yimshel bach"-you will want him, but because of the curse he will have the control.
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| mimivan |
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| simba wrote: | | TWINNY wrote: | | It is the curse of the woman-'vehu yimshel bach' |
I am not sure if this is what the curse is referring to. To me it seems that the man is the one that will rule the household and somewhat "own" his wife. I cannot imagine the curse is referring to the s-xual obligation a man has towards his wife. |
It's maybe a curse that she will need him more than he needs her.
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Posted: Tue, Aug 10 2010, 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: re: Why Is the responsibility for Relations on the Man |
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| amother wrote: | | simba wrote: | | sequoia wrote: | | simba wrote: | | sequoia wrote: | | Because men WANT sx more, but women NEED it more. |
I am not sure if they need it more or, the absence of it hurts them deeper. |
Aren't they equivalent statements? |
I though about that as I was posting. They are in a way. I just think the wording is important, a woman doesn't need it as much as she is pained by it being denied to her. It is not the physical aspect she needs,it is the emotions and feelings it promotes that she needs. |
I find that very stereotypical. |
I am not saying that there is no such thing as a women with a high Libido who craves the physical pleasure of s-x. This is not what I am referring to.
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