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I lit 2 candles for 40 days
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amother
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PostPosted: Tue, May 25 2010, 8:08 am    Post subject: I lit 2 candles for 40 days
 
1 for reb menachem mendel miriminov
1 for reb amrom chasside
and I was helped
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amother
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PostPosted: Tue, May 25 2010, 8:24 am    Post subject: re: I lit 2 candles for 40 days
 
can you explain this segula?
do you have a source?
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shalhevet
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PostPosted: Tue, May 25 2010, 8:26 am    Post subject:
 
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused
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amother
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PostPosted: Tue, May 25 2010, 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: re: I lit 2 candles for 40 days
 
amother wrote:
can you explain this segula?
do you have a source?


they say that when you lite 40 days a candle leilui nishmas reb menachem mendel ben reb yosef miriminov, you see a yeshue
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PostPosted: Tue, May 25 2010, 2:17 pm    Post subject: re: I lit 2 candles for 40 days
 
I lit one leilui nishmas reb menachem mendel ben reb yosef miriminov and was helped. (got pregnant)
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sarahd
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PostPosted: Tue, May 25 2010, 2:26 pm    Post subject:
 
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused


Sometimes, years of davening don't help and you'd like to try something else to see if that will do the trick. Sometimes dozens of segulos don't help either and then you go back to the davening.
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amother
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PostPosted: Wed, May 26 2010, 6:37 pm    Post subject:
 
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

אין חבוש מתיר עצמו מבית האסורים It's not always easy for person in need of a yeshua to pray. A candle leilui nishmas a tzaddik is like a request for the tzaddik to help from shamayim. I assume that Baruch Hashem you were never desperate for a lengthy amount of time for a yeshua. Instead of making such remarks, you should thank Hashem that you didn't have a need to use all kinds of segulos.
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PostPosted: Thu, May 27 2010, 2:08 am    Post subject:
 
amother wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

אין חבוש מתיר עצמו מבית האסורים It's not always easy for person in need of a yeshua to pray. A candle leilui nishmas a tzaddik is like a request for the tzaddik to help from shamayim. I assume that Baruch Hashem you were never desperate for a lengthy amount of time for a yeshua. Instead of making such remarks, you should thank Hashem that you didn't have a need to use all kinds of segulos.


Baruch Hashem I haven't been in a situation where I felt a need to look for a segula and I'm not going to judge someone who unfortunately has been. But there are all sorts of segulas and reading about this one disturbed me. To me it seems very similar to the christian "minhag" of "lighting a candle". Sorry but that was my immediate association upon reading this post.
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shalhevet
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PostPosted: Thu, May 27 2010, 3:27 am    Post subject:
 
amother wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

אין חבוש מתיר עצמו מבית האסורים It's not always easy for person in need of a yeshua to pray.


Sorry, but I missed the connection. The quote you brought means that sometimes a person's own tefillos won't help. But according to the Ramban someone in trouble has a Torah mitzva to daven, so he certainly should. This has been our way of "getting yeshuos" since the days of Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov.

Quote:
A candle leilui nishmas a tzaddik is like a request for the tzaddik to help from shamayim.


I don't know where you get this from. If you want to explain it already, by lighting a candle l'ilui nishmas someone you are doing a "favour" to their neshomo and then maybe you can ask them to daven for you "in return".


Quote:
I assume that Baruch Hashem you were never desperate for a lengthy amount of time for a yeshua.


At my age you know that no one lives their lives without their own bundle of nisyonos from Hashem.

Quote:
Instead of making such remarks, you should thank Hashem that you didn't have a need to use all kinds of segulos.


This is even more disturbing than your first post (are you the OP?). No one "needs" to use segulos. Everyone needs and has a mitzva to daven. I am sure some segulos are effective, especially when told by tzaddikim and brought down in reliable seforim. However I find the idea that you were answered because of lighting candles and not because you davenned, disturbing. If you davenned, how do you know it wasn't your (or other people's) tefillos which brought about the yeshua? And if you didn't daven, that is truly frightening, that a frum Jew is running to light candles instead of pouring out their heart to the Ribono shel Olam.
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sarahd
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PostPosted: Thu, May 27 2010, 5:23 am    Post subject:
 
Shalhevet, people who do these kinds of segulos don't not daven because they figure a candle will help. They daven, light the candle and daven, and daven some more.

When you daven for 15 years for something and it doesn't happen and then you light this candle and daven for 40 days and on the 40th day it does happen, you figure maybe it was the segula that tipped the scale.
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sleepwalking
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PostPosted: Thu, May 27 2010, 5:31 am    Post subject:
 
sarahd wrote:
Shalhevet, people who do these kinds of segulos don't not daven because they figure a candle will help. They daven, light the candle and daven, and daven some more.

When you daven for 15 years for something and it doesn't happen and then you light this candle and daven for 40 days and on the 40th day it does happen, you figure maybe it was the segula that tipped the scale.
Thumbs Up well said!!
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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PostPosted: Fri, May 28 2010, 10:40 am    Post subject:
 
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

Rochel Imenu was suffering from IF and didn't daven to Hashem but did a segulah - she went to the tzaddik, Yaakov Avinu.

amother wrote:
Baruch Hashem I haven't been in a situation where I felt a need to look for a segula and I'm not going to judge someone who unfortunately has been. But there are all sorts of segulas and reading about this one disturbed me. To me it seems very similar to the christian "minhag" of "lighting a candle". Sorry but that was my immediate association upon reading this post.

Would you say the same about the pope wearing a kippah? The Xtians took the candle lighting idea from Jews. If Jews light candles for a neshoma, for an ancestor or for a tzaddik or as a segula for Meir Baal Haness as mentioned in sefarim, is it from Xtians? The Rebbe R’ Mendele from Riminov who said that he will do a favor on behalf of the person who will light a candle for his neshomo. If someone questions this, it’s a problem with the questioner.

The 2nd Belzer Rebbe, R’ Shiyale zt”l, asked "What is today Torah Shebaal Peh since everything is written?" He concluded that it refers to the minhogei Yisroel which are orally transferred from generation to generation.

Shalhevet wrote:
At my age you know that no one lives their lives without their own bundle of nisyonos from Hashem.

Nissyonos is one thing but waiting for a yeshua is a complete different story.
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shalhevet
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PostPosted: Fri, May 28 2010, 10:54 am    Post subject:
 
Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

Rochel Imenu was suffering from IF and didn't daven to Hashem but did a segulah - she went to the tzaddik, Yaakov Avinu.


I am mocha the motzi shem ra on Rochel Imenu.

It says that Hashem made the imahos akkaros because he desired their tefillos.

The references to the avos and imahos davenning to Hashem are too numerous to list here. Rochel Imenu is the very symbol of tefilla to Hashem - what is 'Rahel mevaka al baneha'? She is the one who davens for us when even the other avos and imahos feel they can't.

This is getting beyond ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Fri, May 28 2010, 11:14 am    Post subject:
 
shalhevet wrote:
Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

Rochel Imenu was suffering from IF and didn't daven to Hashem but did a segulah - she went to the tzaddik, Yaakov Avinu.

I am mocha the motzi shem ra on Rochel Imenu.
It says that Hashem made the imahos akkaros because he desired their tefillos.
The references to the avos and imahos davenning to Hashem are too numerous to list here. Rochel Imenu is the very symbol of tefilla to Hashem - what is 'Rahel mevaka al baneha'? She is the one who davens for us when even the other avos and imahos feel they can't.
This is getting beyond ridiculous.

the fact that there are nough people agreeing with op makes me sad for our future.
shalhevet, ur post made me feel better.
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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PostPosted: Fri, May 28 2010, 11:23 am    Post subject:
 
shalhevet wrote:
Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

Rochel Imenu was suffering from IF and didn't daven to Hashem but did a segulah - she went to the tzaddik, Yaakov Avinu.

I am mocha the motzi shem ra on Rochel Imenu.

It says that Hashem made the imahos akkaros because he desired their tefillos.

The references to the avos and imahos davenning to Hashem are too numerous to list here. Rochel Imenu is the very symbol of tefilla to Hashem - what is 'Rahel mevaka al baneha'? She is the one who davens for us when even the other avos and imahos feel they can't.

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

You're right, she was mispallel. I meant to say that besides tefillah she still felt she needed something else to be done to merit children, which does not fall under the category of tefillah to Hashem.

"Rochel mevake al boneho" of course, BUT when she personally was in pain and needed a yeshua, she went to the tzaddik and according to the words of the tzaddik she did another segulah. That’s besides the segulah that Rochel herself did by requesting dudoim from her sister, Leah.

Unlike for Yitzchok & Rivka, where the Torah specifies that they were mispallel, for Rochel Imeinu, the Torah only states that she turned to the tzaddik for help and does not specify anything about Rochel’s tefillos.

If the Torah mentions that Rochel, one of the Imahos, went to a tzaddik, it’s to teach us that it's legitimate to do something besides tefillah.
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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PostPosted: Sat, May 29 2010, 6:58 pm    Post subject:
 
solo wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Doesn't anyone daven anymore? Confused

Rochel Imenu was suffering from IF and didn't daven to Hashem but did a segulah - she went to the tzaddik, Yaakov Avinu.

I am mocha the motzi shem ra on Rochel Imenu.
It says that Hashem made the imahos akkaros because he desired their tefillos.
The references to the avos and imahos davenning to Hashem are too numerous to list here. Rochel Imenu is the very symbol of tefilla to Hashem - what is 'Rahel mevaka al baneha'? She is the one who davens for us when even the other avos and imahos feel they can't.
This is getting beyond ridiculous.

the fact that there are nough people agreeing with op makes me sad for our future.
shalhevet, ur post made me feel better.

Huh? Confused
It makes most of us sad that there are people who don't feel along the great simcha OP had after longing for a yeshua and boruch Hashem was helped.
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shemesh
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PostPosted: Sat, May 29 2010, 9:46 pm    Post subject: re: I lit 2 candles for 40 days
 
if you guys dont belive in segulot its OK , but some of us DO ! PLEASE RESPECT THAT .
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gold21
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PostPosted: Sat, May 29 2010, 9:57 pm    Post subject: re: I lit 2 candles for 40 days
 
this thread clearly was not intended to be controversial, and it is therefore really not nice to debate segulos here! start a seperate thread if you wish, but over here you should just be happy for OP.
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life'sgreat
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PostPosted: Sat, May 29 2010, 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: re: I lit 2 candles for 40 days
 
gold21 wrote:
this thread clearly was not intended to be controversial, and it is therefore really not nice to debate segulos here! start a seperate thread if you wish, but over here you should just be happy for OP.

.
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shalhevet
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PostPosted: Sun, May 30 2010, 4:09 am    Post subject:
 
1.I don't understand what the controversy on this thread has to do with believing segulos help or don't. I mentioned at the beginning that I am certain some segulos, brought down by tzaddikim are effective. I look at it as a kind of hishtadlus - like going to the doctor as well as davenning.

2.What I find very disturbing is not that people do segulos and/or that they help, but the tone of several posts here - that it (almost) sounds like the posters rely on the segulos instead of davenning to Hashem. BTW, I would find it just as disturbing if someone had IF or a terrible illness and wrote that it's all thanks to Dr. XYZ because he cured them/ gave them a child blah, blah and didn't mention that they davenned. Actually the OP wasn't even so bad, but later posts just got worse and worse until we got to the point that the imahos were answered because of segulos Confused

3. I wouldn't include asking a tzaddik to daven for someone, or going to kivrei tzaddikim and davenning to HASHEM to answer them IN THE ZECHUS OF THE TZADDIK to be segulos - both these inyanim are certainly firmly rooted in Torah.

4. I got lost somewhere about 'yeshuos'. Was I correct that posters were saying that you can daven for "little problems" but if you need a "yeshua" (whatever that means) then forget davenning, because you need a segula? - that was the impression I got here.

5. I find it very offensive that posters decide to "assume" things about other posters without knowing anything about their lives. Your post made it sound like it's okay to worship avoda zara (I am not comparing a"z to a segula - just the tone) if you are desperate enough, but knowing nothing about my life, you are sure that I was never as desperate as you were.
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