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| chavamom |
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 Posted: Tue, Mar 16 2010, 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspired wrote: | | I said according to certain groups certain types of matza are considered and treated like chametz by them. This isn't "a made up shtuss" (now that, is an insult.) This is halacha, according to their posek, rebbe, etc. | And this is where I said I think people are confusing hanhagos (being machmir with anything that might have the slightest chashash of chometz) with having a din of being chometz gomur. It's not the same thing.
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| Tova |
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| Posted: Tue, Mar 16 2010, 9:35 pm Post subject: re: Would you eat in a home where they eat soft matza? |
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| [Point taken about the difference between kitniyos and matza - the latter of which contains one of the 5 grains and therefore has a possibility of being chametz. Not the best argument to make my point which I still stand fully behind.]
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| shalhevet |
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Location: Israel
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| Posted: Wed, Mar 17 2010, 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Mommy3.5 wrote: | | Quote: |
To give an extreme example, when I was growing up in England there was a matza company without a hechsher at all, and would happily sell boxes of the stuff marked Kosher for Passover to ignorant Jews. Their matzas were 100% chometz - would you say that shouldn't be sold? |
Does not having a hechsher really make it not kosher or chametz gamur?
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Now you are twisting things. Of course not having a hechsher does not = treif/ chometz gamur. It depends. The pork chops in Bob's Bright Butcher's Shop don't have a hechsher, and nor do my homemade challas (though they are chamutz gamur  )
In this case rabbonim announced that they were most certainly chometz, because the machinery couldn't even make matzas KLP.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Just to throw this in the pot, dh tells me that matzah as described in the gemara is soft matzah and thicker than the stuff that Sefardim make today. Bummer they didn't know they were eating chometz. |
lol
I doubt they had hechsherim on their matzah either. I guess one had to figure out himself if rabbi Akiva had "chezkas kashrut" After all, he had non jewish blood in him, and we know that non jews are assumed not to have any.... |
These comments show you have both still missed the point. I probably couldn't have eaten at the Rambam's seder table either.
Anyway, you keep going on that I or whoever think your matzas are chometz. Do you still not get that I don't think anything of the kind? IF we wouldn't eat them after Pesach (not so sure, as I said at the beginning) it is our hanhaga, not implying anything about your eating them.
It's like saying if someone doesn't drink milk on Pesach or eat tomatoes or garlic they are implying I am eating chometz.
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| DrMom |
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| Posted: Wed, Mar 17 2010, 3:07 am Post subject: re: Would you eat in a home where they eat soft matza? |
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| They sell soft (Temani (Yemenite")) matzot at the local glatt supermarket. I'd eat it, and I'd eat in someone's home who eats it.
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| tizunabi |
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| Posted: Wed, Mar 17 2010, 3:48 am Post subject: re: Would you eat in a home where they eat soft matza? |
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I would love to be invited to someones house who eats soft matzah, I understand that for many reasons im not allowed to have it at home (minhagim and all that) but eating out... thats a different story.
I also feel that living in israel I'm much more relaxed about the kitniyot issue, but thats just me..
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| Mommy3.5 |
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| Posted: Wed, Mar 17 2010, 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| shalhevet wrote: | | Mommy3.5 wrote: | | Quote: |
To give an extreme example, when I was growing up in England there was a matza company without a hechsher at all, and would happily sell boxes of the stuff marked Kosher for Passover to ignorant Jews. Their matzas were 100% chometz - would you say that shouldn't be sold? |
Does not having a hechsher really make it not kosher or chametz gamur?
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Now you are twisting things. Of course not having a hechsher does not = treif/ chometz gamur. It depends. The pork chops in Bob's Bright Butcher's Shop don't have a hechsher, and nor do my homemade challas (though they are chamutz gamur )
In this case rabbonim announced that they were most certainly chometz, because the machinery couldn't even make matzas KLP.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Just to throw this in the pot, dh tells me that matzah as described in the gemara is soft matzah and thicker than the stuff that Sefardim make today. Bummer they didn't know they were eating chometz. |
lol
I doubt they had hechsherim on their matzah either. I guess one had to figure out himself if rabbi Akiva had "chezkas kashrut" After all, he had non jewish blood in him, and we know that non jews are assumed not to have any.... |
These comments show you have both still missed the point. I probably couldn't have eaten at the Rambam's seder table either.
Anyway, you keep going on that I or whoever think your matzas are chometz. Do you still not get that I don't think anything of the kind? IF we wouldn't eat them after Pesach (not so sure, as I said at the beginning) it is our hanhaga, not implying anything about your eating them.
It's like saying if someone doesn't drink milk on Pesach or eat tomatoes or garlic they are implying I am eating chometz. |
I wasn't trying to twist your words, the way it was written there was nothing about people observing the process and seeing that it was chometz, Just that it had no hechsher....chometz.
When explaimed, its very different.
I get that you think its OK for me to eat soft and you to not, were on the same page there. Its the part where I consider your matzah to be chametz to me, that I have an issue with still. I consider everything that is not chametz to be kosher l pesach, I don't consider it chametz, and therefore don't eat it. I consider it not my mesorah to eat X and therefore I don't eat it.
Its different then saying I consider X to be chametz and therefore I need to sell it and cannot use it after pesach. Subtle, but still different.
Chavamom, understood that I find it insulting the same way I would find it insulting if someone called my house treif because of different standards. My not wanting to eat X because of who does/doesn't certify, does not make that item treif, Just not for me.
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