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| amother |
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Amother
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 Posted: Mon, Sep 14 2009, 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: re: DDs friend passed away |
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| ShakleeMom wrote: | | amother wrote: | | This is another one of those things that you can do the same thing to one person and one person appreciates it and from some posts here you see that it wasnt appreciated. Thats why I am always so nervous to go or talk to someone in a difficult situation because its a gamble if they will appreciate or even get mad. |
since then I paid 2 shiva calls elsewhere... I had this huge fear of upsetting people. so I went in, waited for the avel to acknowledge me, say something, I answered something bland... after a minute or two said the posuk, and LEFT. |
I do that too, bec. I dont have enough confidence and I'm scared of saying the wrong thing, so I rather dont say anything. But I'm sure glad that the whole world is not like that. I sat shiva for my father, and had everyone who came just sat there like dummies just nodding their heads and saying the possuk, it would have been so much more depressing and uncomfortable. I'm sure glad that people spoke about different things, even if sometimes it was silly or insensitive.
| Quote: | | My cousin told me that when her dd passed away, the most horrible experience was all the classmates mothers coming to pay a shiva call, she couldn't stand it! She was like, helllloooooo do I know you from somewhere, where were you till now when my dd was honor roll, in the school play... suddenly when she's gone, your curiosity gets the better of you and you must be able to tell people "aw, I was there at the shiva, so tragic" stop playing important. Just passing on her message. |
Sorry I dont understand this attitude at all. We also had people whom I havent seen or heard in years came even though they didn't come to my simchas, and I really appreciated it. Should I have been insulted and ask them 'where were you when I make a kiddush for my daughter?' ??
People come to shiva to gawk?! at whom? to see people crying? I dont get it at all.
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| HappyPurim |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 15 2009, 10:43 pm Post subject: re: DDs friend passed away |
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shaklee I'm surprised at your cousin, maybe she was hurting so bad that she didnt appreciate the classmates mothers coming, I think its really nice, no one likes to go to a shiva call.
my grandmother passed away this purim my mom was sitting shiva in my grandmothers house, ( I was actually there )when a lady came in told my mother you dont know me, but when your mother sat outside my kids always said hello and she loved talking to them, I saw the sign outside so I just had to come in...
I have to say my mother is so impressed she still doesnt stop talking about this.
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| PinkFridge |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 15 2009, 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: re: DDs friend passed away |
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| HappyPurim wrote: | shaklee I'm surprised at your cousin, maybe she was hurting so bad that she didnt appreciate the classmates mothers coming, I think its really nice, no one likes to go to a shiva call.
my grandmother passed away this purim my mom was sitting shiva in my grandmothers house, ( I was actually there )when a lady came in told my mother you dont know me, but when your mother sat outside my kids always said hello and she loved talking to them, I saw the sign outside so I just had to come in...
I have to say my mother is so impressed she still doesnt stop talking about this. |
But you see, this woman was seriously touched by your grandmother. She had a place, though briefly.
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| amother |
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| Posted: Tue, Sep 15 2009, 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: re: DDs friend passed away |
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| amother wrote: | | ShakleeMom wrote: | | amother wrote: | | This is another one of those things that you can do the same thing to one person and one person appreciates it and from some posts here you see that it wasnt appreciated. Thats why I am always so nervous to go or talk to someone in a difficult situation because its a gamble if they will appreciate or even get mad. |
since then I paid 2 shiva calls elsewhere... I had this huge fear of upsetting people. so I went in, waited for the avel to acknowledge me, say something, I answered something bland... after a minute or two said the posuk, and LEFT. |
This is an issue regardless of the circumstances of shiva. When I was sitting shiva fairly recently, I had people I hardly knew, and who didn't know my mother, show up and say nothing, then I felt awkward at having to sit there looking at the person with nothing to say. I had people I knew very well show up and talk about work-related things and I wanted to tell them to shut up. I had people who asked me to tell them about my mother, so we could talk about good things about her, and that made it harder.
There's just no way a shiva call is going to be pleasant. People sitting shiva will be upset, whether you say something or not.
I know the purpose of shiva and having people be menachem avel, but quite frankly, it made it much harder for me to get through this time. I would have rather sat the whole time without anyone coming over. |
Well, I guess there are all different types in this world because I was happy with every person that came over, it showed that they cared. Not everyone says the smartest things but for the most part being able to speak about my mother was very necessary for me even though it was painful at times.
I only remember being annoyed a few times and this was for the following statements:
1-"At least she didn't suffer long" This was usually followed by a story about someone they knew that suffered a long time and then died. Is this really supposed to make me feel better?
2-My sister's seminary and high school friends who seemed to come over just to laugh hysterically and socialize.
3-My mother's doctor who said that there was nothing more that could have been done, my mother was too far gone (after her being sick for only 3 months). I wish he would have not said anything about her at all because that statement made me angry.
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| 2kiddos |
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 02 2012, 2:39 am Post subject: re: DDs friend passed away |
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| I heard the reason for the mitzva of being menachem uvel is as a zechus and a kibud for the neshama, not necessarily to comfort the uvel. Therefore it's really not appropriate to talk about other things other than the niftar.
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| turca |
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 02 2012, 3:44 am Post subject: re: DDs friend passed away |
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Yes, to pay a shiva call is to honor the neshama, not the avel.
My youngest uncle passed away at young age about 15 years ago. My grandmother was very upset at some cousins or sth bec they didn't show up. " how come xyz didn't come??? It was his cousin! It was her son's friend ! ". For her it was no respect for his neshama.
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| the world's best mom |
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 02 2012, 9:30 am Post subject: re: DDs friend passed away |
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| This thread is 3 years old, so this Shiva is long over, but I suppose there are other Shivas now that it can be helpful for.
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 02 2012, 10:34 am Post subject: Re: re: DDs friend passed away |
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| turca wrote: | Yes, to pay a shiva call is to honor the neshama, not the avel.
My youngest uncle passed away at young age about 15 years ago. My grandmother was very upset at some cousins or sth bec they didn't show up. " how come xyz didn't come??? It was his cousin! It was her son's friend ! ". For her it was no respect for his neshama. |
I've never heard that.
A shiva call is called "nichum aveilim" -- comforting the mourner. When you leave a shiva home, you say, "HaMakom yenacheim etchem betoch sha'ar aveiliei Tzion v'Yerushalayim" -- May Hashem comfort you among those who mourn for Zion and Jerusalem. Aish says, "When one pays a shiva call, the focus is on comforting the mourners in their time of greatest grief."
So, I'm curious as to your source that comforting the mourner has no role in the shiva call.
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| PinkFridge |
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 02 2012, 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: re: DDs friend passed away |
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| Barbara wrote: | | turca wrote: | Yes, to pay a shiva call is to honor the neshama, not the avel.
My youngest uncle passed away at young age about 15 years ago. My grandmother was very upset at some cousins or sth bec they didn't show up. " how come xyz didn't come??? It was his cousin! It was her son's friend ! ". For her it was no respect for his neshama. |
I've never heard that.
A shiva call is called "nichum aveilim" -- comforting the mourner. When you leave a shiva home, you say, "HaMakom yenacheim etchem betoch sha'ar aveiliei Tzion v'Yerushalayim" -- May Hashem comfort you among those who mourn for Zion and Jerusalem. Aish says, "When one pays a shiva call, the focus is on comforting the mourners in their time of greatest grief."
So, I'm curious as to your source that comforting the mourner has no role in the shiva call. |
Some years ago I heard a shiur on this topic and while I'm fuzzy, the rav mentioned all sorts of metaphysicals things about halachic aveilus. While comforting mourners who aren't Jewish, or who don't have Jewish parents is a lovely gesture, when halachic aveilus isn't necessary it's because the neshama doesn't need it. So that could be the source, though I agree with you that it's also for the mourner.
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The righteous praise and honor people for every good quality that is found in them while the wicked seek out faults in others to pull them down, even if they repented those deeds. (Rabbeinu Yonah, from Partners in Kindness)
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