I really want to understand

mumsy23

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:11 pm

I kind of understand what ceo is saying.

I find a lot of times, lubavitch people will take jewish ideas that all jews should and do hold by and brand them "lubavitch". This is in a sense hurtful to the general jewish population because it makes us feel like "what? we do that to, why are they claiming it as 'their' thing?"

I will give an example:

When I came back from seminary for pesach, I was invited to a Lubavitch Rabbi's home for second seder (a rav who is very big in that lubavitch community. Has his own shul and followers etc...) (also, note that my parents weren't frum, and he happened to know them, and thats why I ended up eating by him)

I don't mean to "bash" anybody, I just also really want to understand.

Anyway, He said things like "The Rebbe says that whatever money you spend on shabbos and Yom Tov you get back". I was very confused - Doesn't the Gemarah say this? Why was he quoting it in the name of the Rebbe? He made comments like this all night and it really got to me.

I don't mean to bash anyone, its just I have heard this to be common in lubavitch circles and I really want to understand.

Crayon210

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:17 pm

Some people don't know who said what.

If the Rebbe davka promoted something, then Lubavitchers will often quote it in his name even if he did not originate it (like the mivtzoim mentioned above).

When people especially get heated about the kiruv issue, it's because Chabad has been involved in this type of work for much longer than any other group, and it's taken some Lubavitchers more time to get used to the idea of others doing kiruv besides just them.

It's really a matter of semantics and/or ignorance. I wouldn't get too offended about it.

TzenaRena

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:37 pm

ceo wrote:

I was reading the Nechoma Greisman a"h anthology. In it she says something like this "I believe that Hashem created freezers so that Lubavitcher women like myself can go out on mivtzoim and have lots of shabbos guests." (Don't quote me exactly on this, my copy of the book is on loan to another member of this board ). When I was reading it, I was thinking, "I;m not Lubavitch. But I also am busy with chesed projects (not called mivtzoim). I also have a lot of shabbos guests who aren't frum. HKB"H created dishwashers for all Jewish women to do mitzvos, not just Lubavitch.

Quote:

There was another part of the book, when she is talking about how one night, after the birth of her twins, she was having a very hectic evening. Her father said, "This is the Rebbe's hardest mivtza of all." Is having a large family something exclusive only to Lubavtich families? Of course not.

These types of things kind of confuse people. A lot of people, not just Lubavitch, do the things that Mommy2 mentioned. Bochurim go on Project SEED in the summer. When I lived in E"Y, I used to go to a shopping center in a non-frum area and pass out copies of HaModia in Hebrew and shabbos candles to non-frum ppl. All these things are not exclusive to Lubavitch---perhaps we don't call it a "mivtza" or "telucha," but we do the same things.

Okay, so Nechama is speaking from her own perspective as a Lubavitcher woman. That doesn't imply that any other Jewish woman who is doing the same kind of thing is doing something less. Confused

In fact doing "Lubavitch" things I.e. al pi Chassidus is not exclusive to "Lubavitch" people. It's not meant to be.

It is just part of the same Torah that is the birthright of every Jewish person.

Chassidus too, is the birthright of every Jew. It's not something copyrighted to certain people, families or groups. [Originally there weren't any families, or groups: Few Lubavitchers were born Chassidim in those first generations, they had to BECOME Chassidim. so it wasn't simply a society, or kehilla but a derech that you chose.]

But it happens to be that the projects you mention (SEED) and distributing Shabbos candles grew out of the initial campaigns of the Rebbe - Merkos Shlichus, and Mivtza Neiros Shabbos Kodesh.

Merkos shlichus is going on since the 50's and 60's. The NeSHeK campaign started in Elul5734/Tishrei 5735, so they are the precedent.

It's great that other groups were inspired directly or indirectly to do similar activities to be mekarev other Yidden, and it is the Rebbe's fervent wish that this be so. But it would be fitting if they acknowledged that it was thanks to the initiation and example of the Rebbe, instead of claiming that it has no connection to the Rebbe.

TzenaRena

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 12:13 am

mumsy23 wrote:

Anyway, He said things like "The Rebbe says that whatever money you spend on shabbos and Yom Tov you get back". I was very confused - Doesn't the Gemarah say this? Why was he quoting it in the name of the Rebbe? He made comments like this all night and it really got to me.

I don't mean to bash anyone, its just I have heard this to be common in lubavitch circles and I really want to understand.

I am guilty of this too. e.g. I know of a concept, or passuk from coming across it/ studying it in Chassidus before ever having seen it in the original. (Sometimes 8) )

OF COURSE, that should only motivate one to look it up and research it in its source.This is something the Rebbe emphasizes, by providing in the edited sichos, quotes from all the commentaries, and sources in Torah She'bk'sav and B'al Peh.

Truthfully, you might have to be a baki b'shas, medrashim, poskim etc. to know where every maamar chazal or concept in halacha originates from.

However, those who stood by the Rebbe's farbrengens or learn the Rebbe's sichos in depth are exposed to such an array of astounding and vast knowledge touching upon literally every subject in Torah, with sources, footnotes and documentation, that it is possible to be relatively versed in or at least familiar with many subjects without having learned them in their direct source.

In particular, the way it is illuminated in the Rebbe's commentary with the deeper explanation of Chassidus, the concept does take on an original "chiddush" quality, so that in a sense one IS quoting it from the Rebbe, although certainly the concept comes from the Gemara, Medrash, or the like.

sarahd

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 5:33 am

As other posters have mentioned, lots of things listed here are common to all chassidim (and many are common to most Jews.) Let me list a few not mentioned by others:

- All chassidim wear Rabeinu Tam tefillin, but only once they are married. Only Lubavitch, I believe, start at bar mitzvah.

- No chassidim wear tefillin on Chol Hamoed.

- Every man I know has a black and white tallis. What are the other options? Confused

- Wearing a gartel is common to all chassidim.

- Most chassidim have negel vasser at their beds. In fact many non-chassidim (like me) also do.

- Isn't Pirkei Avos from Pesach to R"H common to everyone?

- My father binds his lulav with lulav rings and he's as Ashkenaz as they come. I never knew there was another way to do it.

- Menorah by the doorpost is common to all chassidim.

- Very few chassidim have those elaborate vach nachts that SY referred to.

Last edited by sarahd on Wed, Aug 02 2006, 5:41 am; edited 1 time in total

sarahd

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 5:40 am

One more point: While china cannot, practically speaking, be kashered, glass can (according to most poskim.) However, it doesn't undergo hagalas keilim. You kasher glass by soaking it in water for 72 hours and changing the water every 24 hours. It's not only Sephardim who do this; my mother kashered glass for Pesach for years and so did our neighbor and doubtless many other people, especially those from the "alte heim" where they didn't have umpteen sets of dishes to use for every occasion.

Also, lots of people use glass for milchig and fleishig. Even for hot, eg. they will drink a glass of hot tea with their fleishig meal and use the same glass for tea with their milchig meal.

Question: Do Lubavitchers have separate drinking glasses for meat and dairy?

tzivi

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 6:30 am

Quote:

We dont make a vach nacht b4 the bris

We do make a vacht nacht, at least we have with each one of our boys k"ah. We serve refreshments and give pekelach to all the little boys who come.

As far as using glass for both milchig and fleishig is concerned, I have heard that some people do use for both, but I have never heard that Lubavitchers do. My Rov has always said to davka keep them separate. If you use them for cold in a fleishig meal, you wash them with hot water on the fleishig side and then where do you wash them when you use them on the milchig side?

Did anyone mention that we teach our kinderlach the Rebbe's 12 pesukim from a very young age? And that our children tend to learn alot more davening from a much younger age than other kids. I am only saying this because I have noticed this now that my two oldest children are in a non-Lubavitch, but Chassidishe school, and my children daven alot longer than all the other kids.

I apologize if I am repeating anything anyone else already said. I did read the entire thread, but I have a terrible memory.

We wait one hour from milchig to fleishig, whereas some others wait half an hour.

By the way, the Minhag Chabad to not eat milk and fish together aparently comes from a misprint in the Alter Rebbe's Shulchan Oruch. Where milk was meant to read as meat. Did anyone else ever hear of this?

girliesmommy

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 8:13 am

sarahd wrote:

Every man I know has a black and white tallis. What are the other options? Confused

I think she was referring to the silver part at the top of some Tallesim. I fogot what it's called.

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Isn't Pirkei Avos from Pesach to R"H common to everyone?

No, I think most people learn Pirkei Avos from Pesach until Shavuos.

Quote:

My father binds his lulav with lulav rings and he's as Ashkenaz as they come. I never knew there was another way to do it.

Lubavitchers use rings made from pieces of the Lulav, as opposed to those holders that slip onto the bottom of the lulav and have places for the Aravos & Hadassim. Also, many Lubavitchers are machmir to have lots of Haddassim in their lulav. (I'm not sure if it's a Lubavitch thing... my dh likes to have 36!)

Quote:

Question: Do Lubavitchers have separate drinking glasses for meat and dairy?

I believe so!

shalhevet

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 8:29 am

I was going to steer clear of this thread, as I wasn't sure I could keep to the conditions, Very Happy

but I must say that I'm finding it very interesting.

GR wrote:

For Pesach we always had a seperate oven.

So do we!

Quote:

We bind the lulav with lulav rings.

So do we!

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We put the Menorah by a doorpost, not by the window.

Us too!

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Every man I know has a black and white tallis. What are the other options?

So does my dh.[/quote]

Quote:

Isn't Pirkei Avos from Pesach to R"H common to everyone?

So do we!

Quote:

Do Lubavitchers have separate drinking glasses for meat and dairy?

Us too!

Quote:

We do make a vacht nacht, at least we have with each one of our boys k"ah. We serve refreshments and give pekelach to all the little boys who come.

Little boys come to say Krias Shema with the baby and we give them pekaleh.

Quote:

No chassidim wear tefillin on Chol Hamoed.

In EY this is the common minhag for everyone.

And we also are makpid on cholov Yisrael.

So either we're closet Lub or you're closet Litvish LOL

About all those haddasim, wouldn't that be a problem with bal tosif?

Motek

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 9:54 am

mummyof6 wrote:

Quote:

We bind the lulav with lulav rings.

So do we!

How do you (and sarahd) attach the hadasim and aravos?

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No chassidim wear tefillin on Chol Hamoed.

Quote:

In EY this is the common minhag for everyone.

that's minhag ha'Gra not to wear tefillin on chol ha'moed

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About all those haddasim, wouldn't that be a problem with bal tosif?

no (obviously, if the minhag is to have more), you can have as many of any of the minim as you want

re the tallis, the silver addition is an atara
the Lubavitch tallis doesn't even have the non-silver atara, it's just plain

Quote:

Wearing a gartel is common to all chassidim.

Lubavitcher bachurim, unlike other chasidishe bachurim, do not wear a gartel. It's worn by married men only.

Quote:

Her father said, "This is the Rebbe's hardest mivtza of all." Is having a large family something exclusive only to Lubavtich families?

the Rebbe is the only one who has made a public campaign to encourage women not to deliberately limit their family size

also not exclusive to lubavitch but to many chasidim is daily mikva for men and bachurim (there's a thread on that in Judaism)

bandcm

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 10:15 am

ceo wrote:

bandcm wrote:

The Rebbe asked that we only wear sheitels outside because of tznius! NOTHING to do with Kiruv!
The idea being that if you wear a tichel and it slips back and a bit of hair shows...ok no big deal. Whereas a sheitel looks ridiculous if some hair shows.

Bandcm,
thank you for explaining that. My Lubavitch friend has mentioned to me more than once that Lubavitch women are very particular to only have nice sheitelach, so I thought the two were related. thank you for clarifying.

Sure no problem.
The Rebbe mentioned that Lubavitch women should have nice sheitlech because of hidur mitzvah and also to fulfill the innate need that women have to look pretty.
The Rebbe was known to give money to Kallas so that they could buy the most expensive sheitel, and to refuse to be mesader kiddushin at a wedding (in the olden days when the Rebbe was still doing that) if the kalla was not going to be wearing a sheitel.

As for all of the recent posts about why Lubavitch claim things as their own when it is a general Jewish thing:
Of course all mitzvas are generally Jewish and meant for all Yidden!
But you cannot get away from the fact that the Rebbe was the first to make public campaigns and drives to publicize and encourage the fulfilment of all of these mitzvas!

gryp

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 12:24 pm

ceo- I think what I really wanted to ask, if you dont mind sharing, is where did your husband go to Yeshiva? what kind of background does he have that he is knowledgeable enough to learn Likuttei Torah and Torah Ohr? where did he get his "Chassidishkeit" Wink

from?
Do you also have a Sefarim from the recent Lubavitcher Rebbeim, or just from the first Lubavitcher Rebbeim?
And if your husband wants a real challenge Wink

, suggest to him learning the Seforim of the Rebbe Rashab (Reb Sholom Dov Ber) like Sefer HaMaamorim around the years of Taf Reish Nun and Taf Reish Samech.

Sarahd- thanx for explaining that lots of the things we do arent exculsively Lubavitch minhagim but Chassidishe Minhagim. I thought that was interesting.

Quote:

Question: Do Lubavitchers have separate drinking glasses for meat and dairy?

as far as I know.

Quote:

We wait one hour from milchig to fleishig, whereas some others wait half an hour.

tzivi, for hard cheese people I know wait 6 hours before eating meat. any Lubavitchers on here that dont?

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No, I think most people learn Pirkei Avos from Pesach until Shavuos.

Right.

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there is no limited number of Hadasim that you can use. 36 was one of the numbers that the Rebbe mentioned that is a good number to have.

The reason many people do the same as us in many things, is simply because we are all being machmir on the same things, not that some of the things we mentioned are neccesarily Minhagim of Lubavitch, but they are things we see others doing differently.
In EY, many people are machmir on things people in Chul aren't which is why you find similarities there too.

TzenaRena

Wed, Aug 02 2006, 4:24 pm

Quote:

Quote:
No, I think most people learn Pirkei Avos from Pesach until Shavuos.

Right.

actually, when I was growing up, Lubavitchers only said pirkei avos from Pesach till Shavuos. In the Alter Rebbe's Siddur it says "v'yesh noihagen kol Shabsos hakayitz", and in more recent years,the Rebbe brought up this "yesh nohagin" and said that it would be beneficial to say it all summer. That's when we started saying it an entire summer.

It's funny, because till then, what I knew was that non-lubavitchers said it all summer, but we didn't!

Motek wrote:

re the tallis, the silver addition is an atara
the Lubavitch tallis doesn't even have the non-silver atara, it's just plain

The reason for this I was told was that during the Alter Rebbe's arrest, the Chassidim made a fund to do whatever necessary to accomplish his release. at that time, they took off the crowns from the Sifrei Torah, and the attaros from the Taleisim, and contributed other ornaments and jewelry to raise money for this. [See The History of Yud Tes Kislev: Arrest and Liberation of Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Liadi by Rabbi C. Glitzenstein, trans. by Rabbi J.I. Schochet - Kehot pub.(pgs. 35-37)]