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View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Motek

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:28 am

shayna82 wrote:

its not that recent. I know tons of people that have had two for years

Okay, let's be specific then. Did most frum Jews have two ovens in the 70's? I don't think so?

In the 80's? I don't think so.

In the 90's? maybe

Chani

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:16 pm

I learned you can cook meat in a dairy oven or dairy in a fleishig oven as long as it is double wrapped or you run the oven through self-clean cycle first.

red sea

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:28 pm

So about all this oven talk, what do lubav do re pesach and an oven?

didan

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:34 pm

B"H

Re oven for Pesach - my mother-in-law always Kashered her oven, my mother never used an oven on Pesach because it was too difficult to Kasher. Recently she bought an oven and it's a strictly Pesach one, packed away with all of the Pesach stuff.

Crayon210

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:36 pm

I also use a small oven only for Pesach, it's a big pain in the neck, but Pesach cooking in Chabad is annoying overall, so what's one more thing? ;-)

(Did anyone mention our Pesach issues, or were you all afraid of scaring off the non-Lubavitchers? ;-) )

ceo

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:37 pm

A lot of things that people are saying as Lubavitch minhagim- they are not specifically Lubavitch- many Chassidim do these things. For example, many chassidim learn chassidus before davening!. So do some litvaks (ie- my husband!)
Also, please correct me if I'm wrong: A chassidishe rebbe (ie- Lubavitcher Rebbe) doesn't usually pasken halacha for his chassidim- the dayanim for the chassidus do that. The Rebbe gives direction in inyanim in hashkafa, etc. So there might be poskim within Lubavitch that say different things, is that correct (unless of course, it was a topic that the REbbe specificially gave direction on?)

I am saying this because on another thread, about harchakos, two different Lubavitch women had learned 2 opposing hanhagos regarding harchakos, from two different poskim.

Does this make sense what I am saying? Please correct me if I am wrong.

red sea

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:37 pm

if you kasher the oven then why cant you use the same one for dairy and meat then the rest of the year? or could you only kasher from chometz to non chametz ???

girliesmommy

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:41 pm

red sea wrote:

So about all this oven talk, what do lubav do re pesach and an oven?

I learned from my mother and the first time I made Pesach, I bought a basic oven - nothing fancy - no clock, timer, etc. but it does the job!

Crayon210

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:41 pm

ceo wrote:

A lot of things that people are saying as Lubavitch minhagim- they are not specifically Lubavitch- many Chassidim do these things.

Well, this is a tricky thread because lots of Lubavitchers don't realize that what they're doing is any different than anyone else. :-D

Some things aren't even not specifically Lubavitch--they're not specifically Chassidish at all--for example, the way Lubavitch men wrap tefillin is a Nusach Sefard thing, which includes many non-Chassidim.

stem

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:44 pm

According to my rav: If the oven is perfectly clean with NO drippings whatsoever, then it makes no difference whether you're cooking meat and milk in the oven.
Why does lubavitch need 2 ovens? Just as a precaution?

Last edited by stem on Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Crayon210

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:44 pm

red sea wrote:

if you kasher the oven then why cant you use the same one for dairy and meat then the rest of the year? or could you only kasher from chometz to non chametz ???

I was told that in general it's an issue of confusion (not to be taken lightly!), and also, one is not supposed to kasher one way (dairy to meat or meat to dairy, not sure which) at all, so you'd technically have to keep pork on hand to treif up the oven so you could kasher it. Not something I'd want to do.

JRKmommy

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 2:18 pm

As a part-Sephardic, part-Ashkenazi family currently attending a Chabad shul, these are some things we've noticed:

1. Subtle differences in the prayers and certain tunes.

2. Gathering in all children at certain points - remembering Amelek, Shavuos, I can't remember the others.

3. Moshiach is a universal Jewish teaching, but the immediate focus on bringing Moshiach now is more Lubavitch.

4. There are other groups that focus on kiruv, but few to the same extent and with the same emphasis. This should be the biggest category, because it influences so much.

5. Teaching of Tanya. As well, the incorporation of Kabbalah and the ideas of the Ari. [Part of my weird path to Chabad involved taking a course on Major Sects and Movements in Jewish History at a secular university, which was taught by a Conservative rabbi. As part of the course, I had to do a major paper on Lurianic Kabbalah. I then recognized the basic philosophy, with the whole idea of bringing Moshiach through redeeming Divine "sparks" throughout the world and thereby engaging in tikkun olam, when I encountered Chabad.]

6. Farbrengens. I don't know if other Chassidic groups do these, but I hadn't seen one outside of Lubavitch.

7. Gorgeous rebbetzins: Sheitels only in public, sheer nylons, knees and elbows covered but attractive, fashionable clothes and shoes worn.

ceo

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 3:30 pm

JRKmommy wrote:

7. Gorgeous rebbetzins: Sheitels only in public, sheer nylons, knees and elbows covered but attractive, fashionable clothes and shoes worn.

This is definetly not only chabad! I have no idea who you mean by "rebbetzin," but two things-

1) in my neighborhood- tons of frum women -rebbetzin or otherwise are very well dressed, as you describe.

2) you will find many kiruv organizations having certain standards in terms of how women/wives of ther rabbonim dress. For example, I once worked at a kiruv organization and it said in our guidelines, "No shammetike looking tichels!" I know of a couple who left E"Y to work on a college campus. The wife was given a stipend up front to go and buy a nice shetl and some nicer looking clothes.

goldrose

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 3:37 pm

another general lubavitch minhag is that we dont eat at other people's houses on pesach. even your rov's, your best friend's etc. Not because they arent kosher enough, but just because we don't.

TzenaRena

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 3:59 pm

Quote:

I am saying this because on another thread, about harchakos, two different Lubavitch women had learned 2 opposing hanhagos regarding harchakos, from two different poskim.

The Lubavitcher Rabbonim pasken based upon the piskei dinim of the Rebbeim, e.g., the Alter Rebbe's Shulchan Aruch, the Shaalos Uteshuvos of the Tzemach Tzedek etc. especially when there is a difference in opinion from other poskim, it is seen as the final psak.

[Other poskim definitely refer to, and learn ARSA etc., and often pasken according to it, but they might sometimes view their psakim as a"daas yochid" or one amongst many poskim, not nec. considering it as the decisive opinion. However, no Posek would just disregard the fact that the Alter Rebbe says something.]

However, even in understanding the Alter Rebbe's Shulchan Aruch, or Tzemach Tzedek, there are sometimes varying interpetations, meanings. in Rabbi Farkash's sefer, Shabbos Kehalacha, he brings down varying opinions within the Alter Rebbe's psak about many halachos.

gryp

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 4:28 pm

JRKmommy, I really enjoy your posts.

Quote:

5. Teaching of Tanya. As well, the incorporation of Kabbalah and the ideas of the Ari. [Part of my weird path to Chabad involved taking a course on Major Sects and Movements in Jewish History at a secular university, which was taught by a Conservative rabbi. As part of the course, I had to do a major paper on Lurianic Kabbalah. I then recognized the basic philosophy, with the whole idea of bringing Moshiach through redeeming Divine "sparks" throughout the world and thereby engaging in tikkun olam, when I encountered Chabad.]

you know more than many people. Wink

so to explain:
It used to be that no one was allowed to learn Kabbalah until they were 40 years old plus not before intense preparation and learning the entire Shas first.
The Arizal changed this though. The Arizal saw that we are coming closer to Moshiach, and he declared: "Mitzvah L'galos Zos Ha'Torah," "It is a Mitzvah to reveal this Torah "("this Torah" is referring to the Zohar). And since then Kabbalah has been integrated into learning Torah everywhere.

There is a spark of G-dliness within physical objects, and when we use these physical objects to do mitzvos, the spark is elevated. This is called "Avodas HaBirurim" and goes back to Avraham Avinu, which is why he had to travel all around Eretz Cna'an to uplift the sparks. When all the sparks are elevated, Moshiach comes.

Quote:

7. Gorgeous rebbetzins: Sheitels only in public, sheer nylons, knees and elbows covered but attractive, fashionable clothes and shoes worn.

By "Rebbetzins," I assume you mean "Rabbis' wives," not as in the women in the Rebbe's family which is what it means to us.

gryp

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 4:38 pm

Quote:

For example, many chassidim learn chassidus before davening!. So do some litvaks (ie- my husband!)

Litvaks learn Chassidus before davening?

For Pesach we always had a seperate oven.

We dont wear a Kittel by the Seder on Pesach.
We bind the lulav with lulav rings.
We put the Menorah by a doorpost, not by the window.
Our women's mikvaos are built differently- called Bor Al Gabei Bor.
We have many Chassidishe Yomim Tovim to celebrate.
We make our houses into a Mikdash Me'at by having sfarim in plain sight, putting a siddur and pushka in the kids' rooms and attaching a pushka to the wall, so that the actual wall of the house has a purpose in something holy!

ceo

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 5:13 pm

GR wrote:

Quote:

For example, many chassidim learn chassidus before davening!. So do some litvaks (ie- my husband!)

Litvaks learn Chassidus before davening?

My husband- a chassidishe neshoma trapped in a litivishe body- does Wink

, I'm just saying that's something that not only Lubavitch people do- Most chassidim do that, at least on shabbos. We were in Skverr for shabbos and my husband didn't daven with a minyan!- they learn chassidus till 11 Am, and then daven.

Also, not eating at other people's houses- that's also not only a Lubavitch thing. I know a gazillion people that do that, again, not only Lubavitch.

Okay, I don't even know what the point of this thread was anymore....so, I apologize for rambling. I am just saying that there are a lot of minhagim/hanhagos that are not exclusive to Lubavitch.

SaraYehudis, you explained the inyanim in Halacha very well. Right, when my husband and I discuss something in halacha, he often tells me the opinion of the shulchan aruch ha-rav.

I guess it is out that we are not your typical litvishe family, now I realize it! Amongst our seforim, we have Torah ohr, likutei torah, tanya, letters of the Mitteler Rebbe, and a bunch of kuntrasim of the Baal HaTanya (the little booklets from Heichal Menachem).

ceo

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 5:19 pm

JRKmommy wrote:

6. Farbrengens. I don't know if other Chassidic groups do these, but I hadn't seen one outside of Lubavitch.

Lots of other chasdiuses do this, but they don't call them fabregens. My friend used to live across the street from Vishnitz Monsey shul in Geula and she used to watch all these different seudas going on- always a seuda for the yartzheit of someon. Also, most other chassiduses don't have as many events to celebrate (some days fabrengens commemorate when a REbbe was released from jail- not everyone has that, for example)

mumsy23

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 5:26 pm

red sea wrote:

if you kasher the oven then why cant you use the same one for dairy and meat then the rest of the year? or could you only kasher from chometz to non chametz ???

First of all, the rules of kashering from chomets to pesach are more strict than from milk to meat and even more strict than from treif to kosher! So, if you can kasher an oven for pesach, you can certainly kasher an oven from milk to meat.

The problem is that it is a whole proccess to kasher the oven from chamets to pesach (as some lubav already posted above- crayone doesn't do it because its sucha pain!) so why would someone who holds liek lubav go through the hassle of kashering from meat to milk or vise versa all the time??! Theoretically it can be done, but is not practical.

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